Hi all, First, I just wanted to add a comment about documentation. In addition to (or in place of) NFC spectrograms, one can also post the audio to xeno-canto or soundcloud.com and provide links to the audio for confirmation/documentation purposes. If I recall correctly, from last I checked, xeno-canto players can be embedded in eBird checklists, while soundcloud players cannot.
Example NFC with links to audio (soundcloud) and embedded xeno-canto sonogram and audio player: http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S11656087 I only mention it because many birders that are only recently starting to pay attention to NFCs can find the task of creating a spectrogram a bit daunting, whereas uploading an audio recording is more straightforward. Second, Magnus mentioned the notion of "NFC people in two camps: those who collect all their data by ear and those who let software do the identification." An alternative way to think about it is "those who collect data in person vs. remotely." How the identification happens is someone of a secondary issue, although I suspect there are real differences between what a human ear can (1) detect and (2) identify when compared to a given piece of software. I like to think of a mic as just another sensory enhancement used by birders to observe birds, just like a pair of binoculars or a spotting scope or tlephoto lens is a visual enhancement (for either a human eye or a video recorder). eBird currently doesn't ask whether we observed this birds visually, with bins, with a scope, or by ear (with or without a mic), just that the observer was present for the observation. Because personal observations are the core focus for eBird, it's an important distinction that needs to be made until the database can accommodate both kinds of data (remote vs. in-person observations). I think we all recognize that these factors influence observation/detection, both visually and auditorily, but they're hard factors to document in a meaningful way, at least in the visual case (how would you easily summarize effort spent detecting vs identifying birds with or without the use of 1 or more optics for a typical eBird checklist?!) which is why I suspect they didn't make it into today's requested eBird checklist information. Good briding, Paul Hurtado, Columbus, OH On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Matthew Sarver <[email protected]> wrote: > Andy et al, > > Magnus raises the same question I had regarding your message. Why would > algorithm-detected NFC data be considered "incidental" rather than a > "stationary count"? Seems effort and methodology would be very explicitly > quantified. I assume this has to do with how "stationary count" data are > currently analyzed by eBird, but not sure the details... Nevertheless, a > nighttime point count is still, well, a point count. Is there a concern > that the algorithms are not reliable enough to detect all species / > individuals? It would be helpful to know a bit more about the reasoning > for those of us who are considering submitting NFC data to eBird. > > Thanks! > Matt > > Matt Sarver > Greenville, DE > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Magnus Robb <[email protected]> > *To:* Andrew Farnsworth <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:09 AM > *Subject:* Re: [nfc-l] Ebird and NFC protocol > > Hi Andrew and others, > > I started using eBird exactly because it had a facility for entering NFC > data, and it seemed a suitable place for me to keep my records. I noted > that automated remote listening data was not supposed to be entered, but > since none of my identifications are automated, I did not feel excluded. I > had not fully understood that real-time was the key or that listing > concerns (which are no concern of mine) were the reason for not making the > NFC protocol more inclusive. My assumption was that as quite possibly the > only ebirder regularly entering NFCs from Europe, something that didn't > quite fit the rules was better than nothing! Now I am contemplating > following your suggestion about creating a listening station identity, > entering things as 'incidental', etc but I worry that I will misrepresent > myself as they were planned observations for which effort data is available. > > Your email seems to put NFC people in two camps: those who collect all > their data by ear and those who let software do the identification. I > belong to neither, as I usually record while I sleep then identify the > sounds by ear and eye the next day. Do I really have to edit two autumns > worth of regular ebird NFC entries? > > While I am on the subject of NFCs on eBird. Is there some way that I can > find all the NFC checklists around the world for a particular date? My own > seem to disappear into a black hole and are not easily visible in the > system, except to me. That may be one advantage of making them 'incidental' > instead of NFC counts. > > all the best, > > Magnus Robb > > > > On 21 Feb 2013, at 14:27:12, Andrew Farnsworth wrote: > > Hi all, > I'd like to chime in on this timely post as well. Thank you, Laurent, for > the initial question, and thank you, Rob, for continuing the discussion. By > way of introduction, for those that do not know or that recently joined the > list, I work for the Lab of Ornithology as the BirdCast project leader and > work closely with the eBird team. I helped to draft the NFC Protocol. > > eBird definitely welcomes all of the acoustic data that we can provide. > The protocol is clear on the real-time listening methods, for those that do > and do not use amplification ( > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/about/nfc-count-protocol). Yes, you can > enter calls you hear by the NFC Protocol if you hear them in *real-time*, > whether by your ear or via a speaker-microphone-recording station. If you > happen to be recording, spectrograms and audio files make ideal > documentation to embed or link in the checklist. Here's a nice diurnal > example: http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S12046094. > > As Rob suggests, correctly, one can also enter other flight call data as > well, such as data recorded by an automated recording station. However, if > you do this, please be clear that you should do all of the following: > - Create a *separate*, *non-personal* account (n.b. the recorded/non real > time data violate listing rules in that you cannot count what you didn't > witness). > - Enter these data as *incidental sightings.* > - Include as detailed a description as you can in the comments about how > the recorded data were collected (e.g. specifics on recording gear, sound > analysis package used, algorithm used, etc.) > > A few additional comments: > For eBird, having some rules for listing is an important incentive, since > eBird does have some competitive outputs. We hope to have a better way to > address these in the future (e.g. a way to "not count" certain submissions, > if you choose), but for now, it is important to respect these so flight > call counters are not seen as "cheating." Treating your flight call > recording station as a separate observer is, in some ways, appropriate. > Obviously, for scientific use, we want to know that you recorded the bird > at that site, so submission is OK. However, we do hope to develop a way to > add "remote listening" protocol in the future, which is part of the reason > that the current protocol discourages submission of remote listening data. > So, if you record an important yard bird, or local record, by non-real-time > methods, enter it accordingly. > > The eBird team is planning to post some additional information on this > topic on the eBird site later this year. I will make sure to cross-post > that information here as soon as the story goes live. > > Good (nocturnal) birding! > Andrew > > ---------- > BirdCast Project Leader > Information Science, Cornell Lab of Ornithology > [email protected] > -- > *NFC-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_WELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_RULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and > Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html> > *Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> > !* > -- > > > -- > *NFC-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_WELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_RULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and > Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html> > *Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> > !* > -- > > > -- > *NFC-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_WELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_RULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and > Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html> > *Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> > !* > -- > -- Paul J. Hurtado Postdoctoral Fellow, The Ohio State University Mathematical Biosciences Institute, http://mbi.osu.edu/ Aquatic Ecology Laboratory, http://ael.osu.edu/ E-mail: [email protected] Webpage: http://people.mbi.ohio-state.edu/hurtado.10 -- NFC-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_WELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_RULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
