James, have you heard me saying that the LINQ-provider is the most important feature of NH3 and it represent the better way to query the DB in NH3 ? Did you read a post announcing the final release of NH3 ?
Can you, and some others NH's MVP, write some posts with yours opinions about the coming soon release ? You and other have the door of nhforge.org opened to write what you want about NHibernate and its ecosystem; you don't have to ask permission just because you have it already (since the beginning of nhforge.org) Why you have to ask me to write an early post about NH3 when you can help doing it by yourself ? On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:07 PM, James Kovacs <[email protected]>wrote: > For the breaking changes, I think they need to get in before release > assuming that there are no major issues with the patches. For the > rest, I like Patrick's idea of making it clear that the LINQ provider > is more beta than RTM and not the recommended query mechanism for this > release. Let people try it and we'll polish it in the coming weeks/ > months. > > Not sure how much help I can be in resolving some of these issues as > I've never dug into the new LINQ provider, but I'm willing to roll up > my sleeves and take a look at some of the issues. I have debugged (and > patched) other areas of NHibernate. So I'm not coming in completely > green. :) > > James > > On Nov 22, 3:13 pm, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> wrote: > > Do you mean before 2010/12/04 ? > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 2:27 PM, James Kovacs <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your point of view, Fabio, that NHibernate has 5 > > > other query mechanisms - many more mature - than the LINQ provider. > > > The reality in the .NET space is that LINQ is king. The preferred > > > query mechanism for LINQ-to-SQL and EF are both LINQ. Look at the > > > uptake of LINQ-to-NHibernate even though it's a proof-of-concept. > > > Having a solid LINQ implementation in v3 - as Patrick is pushing for - > > > will have a dramatic effect on the acceptance of NHibernate outside > > > its core demographic of current NH users or those coming from > > > Hibernate. For example, I tried a simple LINQ query with an orderby > > > clause and it failed with a Antlr.Runtime.NoViableAltException. > > > > > var query = from foo in session.Query<Foo>() > > > orderby foo.Bars.Count() > > > select foo; > > > > > (As you can probably guess, a Foo has a collection of Bars.) Writing > > > this same query in HQL works just fine: > > > > > var query = session.CreateQuery("select foo from Foo foo order by > > > size(foo.Bars)"); > > > > > Yes, HQL is much more mature. I realize that. Newcomers to NH will > > > not. They'll get that wacky exception and won't think, "Is there > > > another way I can query with NH?" They'll think, "NH is broken." > > > > > This isn't meant to detract from the work that Steve Strong has done. > > > He has done an amazing job in building up the foundation, but as > > > Patrick points out, LINQ needs some polishing. We've got patches with > > > test cases waiting for evaluation. Can we try to fix the major (and > > > hard-to-fix later) issues before NH3 releases? Please? Pretty please? > > > > > James > > > > > On Nov 20, 11:59 am, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I can understand your feeling. > > > > > > I would understand your definition of: > > > > - pertinent comment > > > > - no attention > > > > - many issues > > > > > > The Linq provider is and will be our most popular source of > issue/bugs > > > for > > > > the next two years, at least, but I'm sure that a lot of > applications, > > > using > > > > NHibernate, are not using Linq to query the DB... perhaps > "fundament", > > > "very > > > > important" are only the result of subjective point of view, > respectable > > > but > > > > *a* point of view as any other. > > > > The Linq provider, in NH, is only an option to query your persistent > > > domain; > > > > we have another 5. > > > > > > More than one year ago we take the decision to begin the release > process > > > > after Steve (Strong) has defined the new Linq provider as ready to > be > > > > released. We will release NH fixing what the team can do (using real > > > > solutions and not patches) and then we can concentrate our effort for > the > > > > next release and, perhaps, some commiter can put the attention you > are > > > > looking for in the issues that are important for you. > > > > > > P.S. perhaps you will commit by yourself. > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Patrick Earl <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > While I'm thankful for all the work that was put into the Linq > > > > > provider for this release, I'm rather disappointed in how the beta > > > > > cycle has gone. We're facing release, and there are still many > very > > > > > important issues that haven't even been commented on in the Linq > > > > > area. To give you some idea, in the entire beta period for the > large > > > > > chunk of code that the Linq provider is, only 4 issues have been > > > > > resolved. During that same period, 25 new issues were created with > > > > > virtually no activity on them. To give you some idea of what I'm > > > > > talking about, here's a sampling of the issues. > > > > > > > Numerous people have filed and voted about parameters not having > the > > > > > correct type: > > > > > NH-2222 > > > > > NH-2234 > > > > > NH-2244 > > > > > NH-2394 > > > > > A patch is available in NH-2394, without a single pertinent > comment. > > > > > > > The null handling is another area with clear problems. You likely > > > > > remember the long messages on the mailing list. There were also > very > > > > > few tests related to null handling, and numerous bugs. Despite the > > > > > provider clearly handling nulls incorrectly, there has been no > action > > > > > on these issues. > > > > > NH-2370 > > > > > NH-2398 > > > > > NH-2402 > > > > > Again, there is a full patch with extended tests in NH-2402, but > not > > > > > even a single comment on this important issue. If NH goes to > release > > > > > without resolving NH-2402, it will cause breaking changes in the > > > > > future. > > > > > > > There are many Linq issues with patches and tests. I'll just name > > > > > NH-2403 since I submitted it. Again, there has been no attention. > > > > > > > Maybe I'm annoying, but I do find it quite frustrating when about > the > > > > > only thing that's progressing is the version number and the same > bugs > > > > > and limitations are still present. I've been happily using > NHibernate > > > > > for years, but it truly is disheartening when even serious / > popular > > > > > issues with full code and tests aren't addressed in any way. > > > > > > > Patrick Earl > > > > > > -- > > > > Fabio Maulo > > > > -- > > Fabio Maulo > -- Fabio Maulo
