I understand Fabio - I was being a bit general on purpose and perhaps was
making naive assumptions. I hesitatingly asked the original question knowing
it was a bit 'odd' on this thread; but I wanted to see what the response
would be...I consider this the "hard-core" thread on the subject :)

Anyways, thanks for the input, and yes it had a positive impact on my design
decision.

-Jeff




On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]> wrote:

> Only remember that ORM is a technique and not a framework.
> When you have a clear idea about what mean ORM you can call NH "an ORM" for
> abbreviation only.
>
> 2009/12/17 Jeffry Morris <[email protected]>
>
> True Diego, I am still thinking in SQL ;) I guess I want the benefits of
>> both...
>>
>> Anyways, you pretty much confirmed my thinking on this: if you opt for the
>> ORM route, then you have to invest 100% into it to get the full effects.
>> ORM's are like a lifeboat that starts out deflated and only has value when
>> inflated with air (data, mappings, etc.).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Diego Mijelshon 
>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff,
>>>
>>> You are still thinking in SQL.
>>>
>>> Of course you can map ParentId as an int property and retrieve Parents by
>>> id on demand, but there's no point on doing that. You lose capabilities and
>>> you don't gain performance; you lose it because you can't join on demand
>>> (because the relationship has not been established).
>>>
>>>    Diego
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 17:25, Jeffry Morris <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know that n+1 can be avoided, what I am asking is if mapping a
>>>> table to entity 1:1 and implicitly ignoring any foreign key relationships
>>>> would be considered a bad practice. I am guessing it would affect 2nd level
>>>> caching, but I am not sure exactly.
>>>>
>>>> If you were using say, linq to nhibernate, would you need this mapping
>>>> since you provide any joins explicitly? For example:
>>>>
>>>> var x = from o in Order
>>>>            join i in OrderItems on o.OrderId equals i.OrderIId
>>>>            select i;
>>>>
>>>> So, in this case what is the purpose of having a "Has A" type
>>>> relationship between Order and List<OrderItem> unless it is a ORM specific
>>>> requirement? All I want todo is map table to entity and let the db handle
>>>> foriegn key relationship via constraints. To me, the entity is just the
>>>> data.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Diego Mijelshon <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You will not have n+1 problems because of the relationships as long as
>>>>> you use them correctly.
>>>>> For the particular case that you mentioned, if you have a ParentId, you
>>>>> don't even need to load the parent to get the children.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Diego
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 22:06, jmorris <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any advice on mapping tables directly to entities and using them as
>>>>>> pure DTOs? Basically you ignore the foreign key reference as a child
>>>>>> of the parent entity and explicitly load the children as needed:
>>>>>> select * from children where children.parentid= xxx?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know this goes somewhat against the ORM grain, but when most of your
>>>>>> usage is simply displaying list data, then this is a very per-formant
>>>>>> way of getting what you need an avoiding any n+1 issues with ORMs. In
>>>>>> this case your entities are just data, they are not even objects (data
>>>>>> and behavior).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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