Mr. Andrew, the 11.5 V is the battery voltage less the draw of lights, etc. Check again @3000RPM. That will be the alternator output. (approx 15V) A charging system is a dynamic. Constantly in change. I will refer you back to previous postings I made regarding battery / load / charging system. I still have the post if you can't find it. I hate the subject because every time somebody starts it, a bunch of grumps just condemns everything about the 650 charge system. It is not a bad piece of work and "poorly engineered" as some say. But then who am I ? Just some schlump who has made his living repairing Hondas since 1972. I don't have a degree in quantum dynamics or work for NASA. At this point, I don't know if you have a starter issue or battery, or charging system. Any / all have the same effect. If you want help with this, start with the battery. What brand, how old, what condition. The service manual states plainly to start any charging system evaluation with a "known good battery" This is essential to a properly working system as it is the battery voltage that will affect the output. A poor battery yields poor charging output.
--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> wrote: From: Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Starting problems To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" <nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 1:17 PM Thanks, I'll try those suggestions. Since it's running, and actually pretty decent right now my current focus is going to need to be with the charging system. I had a ride planned with a friend of mine for yesterday. We started off, rode down the street to a gas station and filled up. I had recently had the bike on the charger. I left the bike running but after I filled it up, I stalled it. Wouldn't start again until I jumped it. I got it home and jumped it.. I put a volt-meter on the terminals where the battery terminals bolt to ( I think its the starter solenoid). The volt-meter read, while it was running .. 11.5 volts. Does that mean the stator is bad? On Dec 18, 1:19 am, Dennis Hammerl <blues...@yahoo.com> wrote: > That's a good question and I'll try to answer it without too much confusion. If you can get the bike to idle at less than 1000RPM, An exhaust gas analyzer would make this job easy, If they are out too far there will be an acid odor at the pipes and maybe some dark smoke. If the idle increases as you slowly turn one in, you're on the right track. As you get it too lean, it will stumble and drop that cylinder. We want it to run smoothly and respond well from idle. The factory setting (whatever) is a bit too lean for my liking but the bike was emission controlled. Another indication of too lean would be a cracking and popping when closing the throttle from a high speed. I run mine a bit rich and I can smell it. Faint, but it's there. A simple rule is to adjust each for highest idle speed (turn the main idle control down if it climbs above 1000, I go as low as I can keep the motor running) Once you make it happy, turn each one out 1/8~1/4 more. The trick is > to make it idle very slowly so the ONLY source of fuel is that circuit. Then the adjustments will be most noticeable. A carb sync helps this since out-of-sync carbs won't allow a slow speed idle. Below a certain point it tries to idle on less than four and stops. With some delicate carb work, my friends V-Max will idle at 400 ! > Carb work is not a black art. It requires a working knowledge and being VERY detail oriented. > > --- On Wed, 12/17/08, Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> wrote: > From: Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Starting problems > To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" <nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 7:51 AM > > Ok, I'll try turning them down. What would I expect to see if they > were not metering anything. How would the bike react? > > A friend of mine gave me this bike so I know he has rebuilt these > carbs before. Thats probably when the one screw was replaced with a > different one and I know that's why most of the rubber in the carb is > in good shape. > > Thanks, > Andrew > > On Dec 17, 12:33 am, Dennis Hammerl <blues...@yahoo.com> wrote:> 2 5/8 sounds a little "much" to me. At that setting they > > wouldn't be metering anything, just open. Try 1 1/2 to start. I really > don't know the exact setting, I always count the turns in to seat before I > remove them. put 'em back the same way. It might be in the Honda shop > manual. For as much as I'm a "by the book" person, results count > more. Glad you got it up and running. Learn anything ? Always better when you > do.> The odd mixture screw is from an older bike. If you broke off the caps > > (too easy to do) you would be left with a skinny post. As long as it has the > same profile as the others. When I see stuff like that, a red flag goes up and I > examine each part for more mods. Somebody else has been here before and I > don't know what they where up to or how good they were. > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> wrote: > > From: Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Starting problems > > To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" > > <nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:02 AM > > > I got it running last night. I took everything out again, used some > > copper wire to clean out the jets and put it all back together. Fired > > up after a little starting fluid and now starts everytime. I read > > that 2 5/8 turns from bottomed out are the factory settings? When I > > first started it, I was getting a littel white smoke coming out the > > pipes. Is it running rich or just need to warm up? > > > I wondered why the bottom screw in the picture didn't have a > > "nob". > > Thanks for all of your help. > > > On Dec 15, 11:55 pm, Dennis Hammerl <blues...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > > Yes they are. Looks like one isn't original (nearest) and the stops > > > > > > > have been boogered on a couple of others. Great that you can remove and > clean > > the passageways. It / they control idle mixture and up a bit past 1000RPM. > If > > you spray into the hole it should discharge from three holes in the bore > > (throttle plate end). Each one is exposed at a different throttle opening. > spray > > carb cleaner into the small openings in the bore (air cleaner side, one on > each > > side) and look for liquid coming from the hole the slow speed jet was in > and the > > the hole the mixture screw was in. Air enters where you sprayed into and > picks > > up fuel at the jet tower where the slowspeed jet was and continues through > to > > the bore.> Now, lets see the inside of the chambers. Remove the bowls > and internals. > > > One at a time please. Did you locate the wire sizes I posted ? > > > > --- On Mon, 12/15/08, Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > From: Andrew <hbrown...@comcast.net> > > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Starting problems > > > To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" > > > <nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 7:57 AM > > > > Can you take a look at this picture and tell me if these are the idle > > > mixture screws? These are what I took off and they didn't > break. > > In > > > fact, they came off very easy. They were a little gunky so I am > > > soaking them and recleaning everything again. I'd like to make > sure > > I > > > get everything this time. > > > > This link has the picture. > > > >http://home.comcast.net/~hbrown159/carbquestions1.jpg > > > > Thanks, > > > Andrew > > > > On Dec 14, 4:19 pm, Dennis Hammerl <blues...@yahoo.com> > wrote:> > > > However you get them off, whatever works for you, etc. I remove the clamps > > > > from the spigots and stick a thin screwdriver under the rubber. Spray > > silicone > > > in and remove screwdriver. Pry bar is fine. I do remove all airbox > > mounting > > > bolts and pull back to give room. > > > > > Andrew; don't attempt to remove the limiter caps. Grind the > > protruding > > > > stops off. Then they can be removed without breakage. The stops only > allow > > 270 > > > of movement, no stops gets you 360. Careful work with a mototool will > do > > it in > > > minutes. > > > > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Kyle Munz <kyle...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > From: Kyle Munz <kyle...@gmail.com> > > > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Starting problems > > > > To: nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com > > > > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 1:11 PM > > > > > Actually I'd like to know the secret to getting the carbs > out of > > the > > > > intake manifolds. I've actually been using a modified allen > wrench to > > remove > > > the manifolds from the engine and leaving them attached to the carbs. > > > > > -Kyle > > > > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Andrew > > > <hbrown...@comcast.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Dennis and Kyle, thanks for the help. I am about to go out > and > > try > > > > > your suggestions. The only part I have not gone through and > blown/ > > > > > cleaned out are those low speed channels you talked about. I > > didn't > > > > > know you could (should) remove them. I'm hoping I can do > it > > without > > > > > breaking them. I have cleaned out those jets in the bowls at > least > > 4 > > > > > times. I used a couple of small pieces of copper wire that I > > > > > stripped. Must not have done a good enough job since it > wasn't > > the > > > > > correct size. > > > > > Is there a recommended way to remove the carbs from the rubber > > > > > mounting holes? I use a 4 foot long pry bar to gently push > them > > out > > > > > and back in after I loosen the clamps. > > > > > Maybe I'll take some pictures. Thanks Again, > > > > > Andrew > > > > > On Dec 14, 1:14 am, Dennis Hammerl <blues...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > YOU have a lot of work ahead. First off, if the carbs were > > really > > > > clean you wouldn't be writing about this. On the plus side, you > > don't > > > seem to be adverse to the labor required. Remove the carb assembly > once > > again. > > > Do not separate from the "runner" that keeps them together. > > Remove > > > float bowls and jets. The slow speed jets are most likely blocked. > > Whatever rust > > > migrated through the system will be everywhere. Slowly clean all > passages > > and > > > jets that fuel flows through. You'll need cleaning wires, > pressurized > > carb > > > cleaner and compressed air. The idle mixture adjustment screws are > the > > ones that > > > have the caps on them. They should be removed and blown out given the > > nature of > > > your problem (rust injestion) It is possible to remove the caps but > most > > often > > > they will break off and leave you with an additional problem. I > carefully > > grind > > > the stop tabs off with a Dremel. Gaining access to the fuel circuit > they > > control > > > will allow you clean a vital area. When replacing> > the idle > mix > > > screws, gently bottom out and back off about one turn > > > > as a starting point. The tabs prevented adjustment that would result > in a > > rich > > > mixture and not comply with EPA. I recently posted the wire sizes > required > > to > > > clean the jets of a 650 (#37 & #115). In the case of a rust > problem > > like > > > yours, I route the fuel line to allow me to use an automotive fuel > filter. > > Find > > > a place for it. My choice of carb cleaner is Berkbile 2+2 (not sold > > everywhere > > > due to hazard) When working on carbs follow the instructions of med > > school; > > > First do no harm. I might add that you need to verify that the fuel > flow > > from > > > the tank is adequate. I open the vacuum with a syringe and blow back > into > > the > > > tank. Rust is among the worst nightmares to deal with. Repeated > cleaning > > is not > > > unknown. Always work on one carb at a time and do not switch slides. > In > > fact I > > > don't remove them unless I suspect a defective diagphram. Before > > installing > > > carbs, support them in an upright > > > > > position > > > > > > and supply with fuel from an external tank source. Better > to > > see if > > > > you have a leak now and not remove > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to nighthawk_lovers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nighthawk_lovers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
