Man Bruno, you almost had a really strong message. But then you ruined it :)
> @isaac, @mikeal, > > This is turning into a real joke! > > Agreed > You tell us that you would like to change process.nextTick and you ask us > for feedback. > > Several people respond that this change is problematic for them and that > they would much prefer that you introduce a *new* API and use it internally > to solve your problems (and optionally make this new API public so that > other people who have similar problems to solve can solve it the same way > you do). > > If you had listened to them, you'd have said: "ok guys, we understand that > this is a problem for you; there is another easy path that solves the > problem for us and won't put anyone else in trouble; let us do it." Case > closed. Everyone can move forwards! > > Instead you reply that anyway, the issue is already settled, the API will > change, and all the people who are asking for process.nextTick to be > preserved are just misusing node and need to rethink their applications > with child processes. > > If the issue was settled from the start anyway, you shouldn't have asked: > just make the change and tell us afterwards! Don't pretend that you care > about our opinion! > Mostly agreed. The fact is the core guys do care about opinions. But they often have biases about the way people "should" be using node. And if you're not using it that way, it hurts your ability to argue successfully. Node is opinionated, and Isaac and Mikeal in particular are opinionated. That's the way this goes. Isaac is correct in saying we either change their minds or we fork. That said, I do wish they would come into conversations like this being a little less smug and sure that they are right. > > The problem is that people like me (I don't know about paddybyers but I'm > assuming he is in a similar situation) are building real applications for > real customers, not I/O libraries for other nodejs developers. And you guys > simply don't know what building a real application means! > <snip> This is all unnecessary, insulting, and untrue. > So, when we tell you that we find process.nextTick useful because it > allows us to time slice computations, it does not mean that we don't > understand node. It just means that we know what we are building, that we > have built similar things before with other stacks, that we have done our > homework with the figures and that we consider that this approach is > completely viable for *our* use cases. > > So, please stop saying that we are doing things wrong and that our opinion > should not matter. We are building real things and we know what we are > doing. You just don't know what we are doing! > > Please, listen to your customers! > > I had a few thoughts about this. I also think the core guys are often presumptuous about how people use node. But that speaks to their view of the core principles of node. It's not necessarily about ignoring constituencies. But about moving node towards their own vision. Even if it means some previous usage is no longer well supported. You can't dictate how people use your open source code, but there's an argument that you also can't let that stop you from moving your project in the direction you want it to go. The only problem with this is that in so many other arenas, proposed changes have been shot down out of hand because "people depend on it" or "it would break a lot of code". It feels arbitrary to me when breaking backwards compat is okay and when it's not. I have long been an advocate that node can still change and we should continue to refine the api and semantics. But I'm often on the losing end of that. But now we're taking an extremely important, long standing core semantic and changing it. I guess I just don't get it. Also as for "listen to your customers", it also made me laugh. Because I thought of the cliche that's frequently going around about startups. "If you're not paying money, you're not the customer, you're the product". I would add a corollary. "If you're not the customer or the product, then you don't really matter". Not saying that applies here. But it's an interesting line of thought. :Marco -- Marco Rogers marco.rog...@gmail.com | https://twitter.com/polotek Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it. - Lou Holtz
