On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Mikeal Rogers <[email protected]>wrote:
> > On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:57PM, Rick Waldron <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Mark Hahn <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Always assume that you will be suspended any time you have a yield or >> yield* >> >> How do you know any of this you see a function call? Only the function >> definition looks different. Tell me which is these will yield .. >> >> a() >> b() >> c() >> > > I see no reason why it would matter if any or all of these are generator > functions. How is this argument any different then calling constructor > functions with new or not? > > Tell me which of these is a constructor that must be called with `new`: > > a() > b() > c() > > > None of them, they aren't capitalized. This is a trick question right? > Can you provide the spec chapter/section that defines constructors as functions whose names begin with a capital letter? :P > > :P > > > > Rick > > > > > >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Tim Caswell <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Mikeal Rogers >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> It is the *exact same* hazard as the code you posted, I don't think it >>>> is any *more* of a hazard at the language level. The difference is that the >>>> pattern in the function code below is basically never seen in node.js code >>>> and it has been *possible* to write it since node's creation. >>>> >>>> Could be that nobody will use/clobber closure scope in their generators >>>> either, but I'm afraid they will because it will work and operate as >>>> expected *most* of the time and, unlike the function example you've posted, >>>> it will still fit well when used with what I assume will become a healthy >>>> ecosystem of generator consuming libraries. >>>> >>>> The reason nobody writes this kind of thing in node is that it just >>>> won't play well with the rest of the libraries in the ecosystem whereas the >>>> hazardous generator example looks like it would fit just as well as a "well >>>> written" generator until it hits scale and causes visible bugs. >>>> >>>> All kinds of bad patterns and bad code are possible in any language. >>>> The patterns we adopt to create a healthy ecosystem are what will keep >>>> people away from the third rails. Depending on people to have "well >>>> written" code, by some definition of "well", is not a good alternative to >>>> solidifying and encouraging patterns that make it *difficult* to write >>>> hazardous code in the first place. >>>> >>>> No pattern or feature in JavaScript escapes the potential for abuse and >>>> bugs, and nothing that I'm worried about w/ respect to generators is worse >>>> or better than language level hazards w/ callbacks, it's just that we've >>>> created a set of patterns that *discourage* those hazards in the current >>>> ecosystem and I'm failing to see how we do that in this particular case >>>> with generators. >>>> >>> >>> I propose a simple rule for all generator code: >>> >>> - Always assume that you will be suspended any time you have a yield or >>> yield* and any shared state may change. >>> >>> If we educate everyone and focus on that one thing (yield) that will >>> cover all hazards around shared state and generators, be it async >>> promise/continuable based stuff or sync lazy iterator stuff. >>> >>> Just like with functions we've learned to look for the "function" >>> keyword and guard our state around that point, we need to do the same >>> around the "yield" keyword. >>> >>> Teach people correct principles and trust them to do the right thing. >>> We'll be fine. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -Mikeal >>>> >>>> On Aug 6, 2013, at 2:33PM, Tim Caswell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> My question to people on the list is how is this any different than the >>>> same hazard with normal function? >>>> >>>> var sum, i; >>>> function reduce(arr) { >>>> sum = 0; >>>> i = 0; >>>> return function () { >>>> if (i < arr.length) { >>>> sum += arr[i++]; >>>> return sum; >>>> } >>>> }; >>>> } >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >>>> Posting guidelines: >>>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >>> Posting guidelines: >>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "nodejs" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines: >> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "nodejs" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "nodejs" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > -- > -- > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "nodejs" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > -- > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "nodejs" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- -- Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ Posting guidelines: https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nodejs" group. 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