On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Mikeal Rogers <mikeal.rog...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:57PM, Rick Waldron <waldron.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Mark Hahn <m...@reevuit.com> wrote:
>
>> > Always assume that you will be suspended any time you have a yield or
>> yield*
>>
>> How do you know any of this you see a function call? Only the function
>> definition looks different. Tell me which is these will yield ..
>>
>> a()
>> b()
>> c()
>>
>
> I see no reason why it would matter if any or all of these are generator
> functions. How is this argument any different then calling constructor
> functions with new or not?
>
> Tell me which of these is a constructor that must be called with `new`:
>
> a()
> b()
> c()
>
>
> None of them, they aren't capitalized. This is a trick question right?
>
Can you provide the spec chapter/section that defines constructors as
functions whose names begin with a capital letter?
:P
>
> :P
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Mikeal Rogers
>>> <mikeal.rog...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is the *exact same* hazard as the code you posted, I don't think it
>>>> is any *more* of a hazard at the language level. The difference is that the
>>>> pattern in the function code below is basically never seen in node.js code
>>>> and it has been *possible* to write it since node's creation.
>>>>
>>>> Could be that nobody will use/clobber closure scope in their generators
>>>> either, but I'm afraid they will because it will work and operate as
>>>> expected *most* of the time and, unlike the function example you've posted,
>>>> it will still fit well when used with what I assume will become a healthy
>>>> ecosystem of generator consuming libraries.
>>>>
>>>> The reason nobody writes this kind of thing in node is that it just
>>>> won't play well with the rest of the libraries in the ecosystem whereas the
>>>> hazardous generator example looks like it would fit just as well as a "well
>>>> written" generator until it hits scale and causes visible bugs.
>>>>
>>>> All kinds of bad patterns and bad code are possible in any language.
>>>> The patterns we adopt to create a healthy ecosystem are what will keep
>>>> people away from the third rails. Depending on people to have "well
>>>> written" code, by some definition of "well", is not a good alternative to
>>>> solidifying and encouraging patterns that make it *difficult* to write
>>>> hazardous code in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> No pattern or feature in JavaScript escapes the potential for abuse and
>>>> bugs, and nothing that I'm worried about w/ respect to generators is worse
>>>> or better than language level hazards w/ callbacks, it's just that we've
>>>> created a set of patterns that *discourage* those hazards in the current
>>>> ecosystem and I'm failing to see how we do that in this particular case
>>>> with generators.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I propose a simple rule for all generator code:
>>>
>>> - Always assume that you will be suspended any time you have a yield or
>>> yield* and any shared state may change.
>>>
>>> If we educate everyone and focus on that one thing (yield) that will
>>> cover all hazards around shared state and generators, be it async
>>> promise/continuable based stuff or sync lazy iterator stuff.
>>>
>>> Just like with functions we've learned to look for the "function"
>>> keyword and guard our state around that point, we need to do the same
>>> around the "yield" keyword.
>>>
>>> Teach people correct principles and trust them to do the right thing.
>>> We'll be fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Mikeal
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 6, 2013, at 2:33PM, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My question to people on the list is how is this any different than the
>>>> same hazard with normal function?
>>>>
>>>> var sum, i;
>>>> function reduce(arr) {
>>>> sum = 0;
>>>> i = 0;
>>>> return function () {
>>>> if (i < arr.length) {
>>>> sum += arr[i++];
>>>> return sum;
>>>> }
>>>> };
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
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