Hi All, I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional styles, and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important to remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much more to do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced by Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and moothie players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition. The piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that shows off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance rather than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested, the piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its hotbed in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes in the North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes, particularly the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now think are Northumbrian.
I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the N Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I hate that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in the North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in the North seems to me to be a fiddle/accordeon tradition in which pipers participated rather than led. There are parallels in Ireland where uilleann pipers may join in with all sorts of reels , jigs etc in sessions, but the hard core repertoire is seen as the "big" 5-plus part piping jigs like frieze Britches and the Gold Ring. Discuss!!! Chris > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:14 +0000 > To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: tim.ro...@btconnect.com > Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes > > Hi Anthony, > > Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, > so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My > purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of > piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an > incredibly rich source of knowledge. > Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical > or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and > colourful. Long may that continue. > > You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 > tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a > "thread" of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision > was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over > the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is > so valued. > > Re "many of these pieces were still > > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > > extremely well." > > Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is > the (North?) "Northumbrian" style of playing lost apart from recordings? Has > it been subsumed by Tyneside influences? Which current players do you feel > best demonstrate that style? Is that style better/truer then other styles > currently in evidence? Should any style be preserved in aspic or should we > accept evolution, whilst treasuring, and being influenced by styles of the > past be they on vinyl or in mp3? > > Discuss. > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Robb" <anth...@robbpipes.com> > To: "NSP group" <nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Richard York" > <rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:20 AM > Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > > > > > > Sorry to butt in folks, especially since I'm not sure what the exact > > context is! As the subject matter is the First 30 tunes the relevance > > of Victorian / Medieval masonry escapes me. I do get the impression, > > Richard, that you might be regarding these tunes as treasures from an > > earlier age. Let me reassure you that many of these pieces were still > > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > > extremely well. It is the lack of appreciation of this and the fact > > that they played their "reels" with a phrasing that was neither march, > > polka or reel. This pulse fitted the dance step of choice, the Rant, so > > perfectly that they referred to the tunes themselves as rants. > > This was far more than a social pastime for the likes of Will Atkinson > > whose payment from "The Tanner Hops" made his, Bella's and their 10 > > bairns lives, much more bearable. It is the glossing over of this > > unique heritage that drives me to bring it to a wider audience. If you > > haven't already done so buy Will Atkinson's wonderful CD and you'll see > > what I mean. > > Regards > > Anthony > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/3/09, Richard York <rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote: > > > > From: Richard York <rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> > > Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > > To: "NSP group" <nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Date: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009, 8:48 PM > > > > In a way, that's the least important part of the story :) > > It struck me at the time what a parallel it was with our treatment of > > music which comes to us from before our time, or at least before deadly > > accurate sound recording, whether it's medieval or anything else. > > But to answer your question, Tim, if I remember aright, he treated > > them each variously according to how much was evident from the original > > form, how much damage the dear Victorians had done, and in what > > condition and how stable each was. Perhaps that's relevant too. > > Best wishes, > > Richard. > > tim rolls BT wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Richard, > > >> > > >> Don't leave us hanging........ what did he choose to do? > > >> > > >> > > >> Tim > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard York" > > <[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> > > >> To: "NSP group" <[2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:10 PM > > >> Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the > > >>> musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course > > being the > > >>> pipers. > > >>> His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or > > to > > >>> restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes > > and > > >>> all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval > > carvers > > >>> had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with > > any > > >>> certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be > > >>> imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some > > people, > > >>> wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once > > used > > >>> to be. > > >>> Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. > > >>> > > >>> Richard. > > >>> > > >>> Anthony Robb wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> <...> > > >>>> There is much room for personal interpretation on top of this > > basic > > >>>> style difference. Letting people hear these differences is > > important. > > >>>> As for so-called "bad habits" these must surely be/have been > > pleasing > > >>>> to the players themselves at some point and are therefore valid > > in > > >>>> their own right even if others may find them displeasing. > > Copying these > > >>>> personal idiosyncracies is one thing, and each player can > > decide this > > >>>> for themselves, ignoring the regional accent completely is > > another > > >>>> thing altogether! > > >>>> I would say go for it Colin, a person with your background can > > not help > > >>>> but make a valuable contribution to the body of piping > > knowledge. > > >>>> As aye > > >>>> Anthony > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >>> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------- > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: > > 03/11/09 08:28:00 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. > > http://uk.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rich...@lizards.force9.co.u k > > 2. http://uk.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 03/11/09 > 08:28:00 > > --
