Not at all what I was saying John. They were good not "because they
were illiterate" but because they had no option but to listen and get
the feel for the tunes they were in their heads before their fingers
tried them out. That is my point.
Dave, I dont know a single teacher in any of the Folk situations these
days who doesn't use dots but I have heard tunes emasculated many times
because excellent sight-readers played them as written. Not only that
but some people from a dots background are now telling the likes of
Jimmy Little that his is not playing the tune properly! Recently a
visiting piper to the area insisted to one of my Caedmon players that
he had the wrong interpretation of a certain tune (recently taught at
my Caedmon classes), the tune in question was written by Alistair
Anderson who, when he heard me play it, smiled and complimented me on
the feel I had for it. It's when dots give people the idea that
they can "correct" the playing of those immersed in the music that I
gert hot under the collar!
These days it has never been easier to learn by listening to recordings
of traditional players. But people are reluctant to give the time
needed to get the tune off with any of the original feel. They want to
get tunes "under the belt" and tick them off a bit like "Munroe
Baggers" do with high Scottish hills.
When dots players can look at at jig bar at see a three quaver group
written in the relationship ratio 1:1:1 and instinctively feel the
following ratio possibilities, 3:1:2, 8:6:7, 6:4:5, 5:3:4, 4:2:3 or
11:5:8 I'll stop banging on about the dangers of dots!!
As aye
Anthony
PS Just a little background on Margaret W from way back - she is
blessed with the most amazing ear for tunes yet she is also a highly
accomplished trained player (a vague memory of an Organ Scholarship to
York comes to mind). I am not saying the two gifts are incompatible.
I'm saying we have to be very careful of the ration between eye & lug
when it comes to our music; about 1:9 might do the trick!
--- On Tue, 3/11/09, Gibbons, John <j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
From: Gibbons, John <j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk>
Subject: [NSP] Re: schei greiss
To: "'Dave S'" <david...@pt.lu>, "Anthony Robb"
<anth...@robbpipes.com>, "nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 3 November, 2009, 2:07 PM
I know some people who refuse to play by ear, and always get the dots
out - I find that often makes performances slower and more wooden.
Many use the dots to learn new tunes, and to refresh their memories.
Some are literate, but prefer to learn a tune by ear, to 'feel' it
better.
Some are excellent ear players, but never use dots - some of these
because they cannot.
The idea that the excellent ear-playing musicians who have existed in
many tradition are that good *because they were illiterate* seems to be
overstretching the evidence. But this seems to be what Anthony is
arguing.
It may just be rather that ear-players listen more?
This has been known to help....
John
-----Original Message-----
From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S
Sent: 03 November 2009 12:13
To: Anthony Robb; [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: schei greiss
Hi Anthony,
This gives a perfect example, the letters you know but not in the
order that I set them.
You attempted a joke that some may find amusing, probably because your
imagination could not crack the code. Perhaps this will soften your
hardline stance on written things, you would have to be in Luxembourg
for a couple of years to get to grips with its' language, but if you
had
a set of written crib cards it would be possible for you to start on
the
language from the comfort of your home.
Now, to address your standpoint on dots, we need audio clues to help us
try to imitate the sounds and eventually they stick in the audio
soundbank. I do so agree, but not to the extent that you propose.
Modern
(new research) concert instrumentalists, starting as children now learn
their instrument by ear for the first few years, when they have learnt
the instrument and some of its' possibilities, they are introduced to
the dots and in so doing create a happy medium and a happy player.
In recent mails Tom Clough was reported to have said that Thomas Todd
forbade him playing the melodyof the Barrington, he had first to learn
the exercises (Julia; are there any random exercises kicking about?) --
some of us need the dots to see the exercises as we can't get to learn
from an expert, there are not enough to go round. You know from your
experience that it takes a lot of time to imprint a melody into the
audiobank(brain). The older you get the longer it can take, some are
lucky in that they already have enough to go on and merely refresh old
memories, I envy their good fortune.
We need the dots as memory helpers, us mortals wot don't concert or
barn
dance etc.
We know we are mortals, so don't knock what you don't have the
background to comprehend, you had it all around you all your life, us
out here ain't got it and probably won't get it. I will try to be like
the Philharmonic, they know their instrument, they have practiced, and
they use their music for clues and memory assists, but they all play
the
conductors interpretation of the piece, emotion, speed, warts and all.
I
am still trying to learn about my pipes but for me it is a slow,
fascinating process I hope will never end. I love them --- and without
NSP dots I would be playing Boismortier, Corrette, Lullay, Rameau,
Zweitackters, alouette, Himmelsmaerch, Mozart, etc etc
Tra 4 now ( confirmed dots supporter)
Dave S (
Anthony Robb wrote:
> Dave
> I did have one but the wheels fell off.
> Anthony
>
> --- On *Mon, 2/11/09, Dave S /<[4]david...@pt.lu>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dave S <[5]david...@pt.lu>
> Subject: [NSP] schei greiss
> To: [6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Date: Monday, 2 November, 2009, 7:23 PM
>
> Wunnerbar eppes vun dei schei sprooch vun hei ze leiesen
> kriit's d'och schei greiss vun Useldeng
>
> Dave S
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> <[8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html>
>
>
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References
1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=david...@pt.lu
5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=david...@pt.lu
6. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu
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