Here's another interesting one: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/04/pulis-and-mcclaren-are-the-most-over-achieving-managers-in-english-football-040501/
Over performing managers relative to the wages of their clubs up to 2008. These are the men who had "the right stuff". They had outperformed expections by getting a higher league finish that their resources suggest they should. It's interesting that it's up until 2008. If their management skills were real they would have continued this good work. However, we see that most got sacked and very few are doing well. It's all random. The manager has very little to do with the performance of a club. If he is incompetent then there might be a problem but as they all have their badges it's not very likely. *1 * Tony Pulis – - – - - *6.6 Still going well * *2 * Steve McClaren – - – - - *6 Sacked * *3 * Sam Allardyce – - – - - *5.6 Sacked * *4 * Brian Laws – - – - - *5.5 Sacked * *5 * Billy Davies – - – - - *5.3 Sacked * *6* Paul Jewell – - – - - *5.3 19th with Ipswich * *7 * Bobby Williamson – - – - - *5 Sacked * *8 * Ian Holloway – - – - - *4 Still doing OK * *9 * Neil Warnock – - – - - *3.8 Doing OK (with money) * *10* Paul Sturrock – - – - - *3.4 Sacked * On 19 December 2011 12:21, Steven Millward <millward....@gmail.com> wrote: > It's short term noise. You could have said the same about Blackpool last > season and Burley the season before that. There is always variation. If > it were a perfect science then it would be entirely predictable. > > Swansea and Norwich might finish where they are now but they are the > exceptions that prove the rule. > > I don't understand how when you are so reliant on statistical analysis to > do your job fifty hours a week you won't accept it here. > > > On 19 December 2011 12:00, Marcus Chantry <chant...@iinet.net.au> wrote: > >> What? The wages of Swansea and Norwich are rubbish but they're still >> above us. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 19/12/2011, at 11:57 AM, Steven Millward <millward....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Utter rubbish >> >> On 19 December 2011 11:55, Marcus Chantry <chant...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >> >>> Mick took on the role knowing what resources were available and what >>> (unrealistically) high expectations there are the club. He didn't have to >>> take the job and if he didn't think we could compete in the premier league >>> he shouldn't have got us promoted. >>> >>> Out of interest, anyone know what the wage bills are for Norwich or >>> Swansea? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 19/12/2011, at 10:37 AM, Steven Millward <millward....@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> So we're agreed that the team isn't good enough, but given the club's >>> wage policy it's not Mick's fault. I'm sure you'll agree that we are where >>> we should expect to be in the league? >>> >>> Given that player quality accounts for 90% of final league position, >>> with the remaining 10% being down to luck, club structure, back room set >>> up, youth academy and manager, then we're talking about maybe 3% being down >>> to Mick. >>> >>> It seems irrational to me to blame Mick for something that it barely his >>> responsibility. Is it a cultural thing? That football fans revert to >>> blaming the manager because it's seen as the thing to do to appear >>> knowledgeable. Or is it a form of denial of the facts because the facts >>> are too unpleasant to accept? >>> >>> You link two points together that don't seem to be linked. >>> >>> Firstly that the team should be improving? Why is this? What should >>> Wolves be doing that will make their team improve relative to every other >>> team? Monkey glands? Spiritual healers? >>> >>> Secondly, that the squad should have been strengthened. Mick reflects >>> club policy. I'm sure he'd like to have a load of players on 80 grand a >>> week but he can't. >>> >>> If someone you work with focussed on something that you knew had very >>> little impact on performance (say 3%), and ignored the things that you knew >>> did have an impact on performance (say 90%), how would you view him? >>> >>> >>> On 19 December 2011 10:08, Morris, Lee SGT <lee.mor...@defence.gov.au>wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *UNCLASSIFIED* >>>> Well in my opinion, Mick's team isn't good enough. Mick's tactics >>>> aren't good enough. I and I think many many others think Mick is out of >>>> his depth in the PL. >>>> >>>> Who knows, our squad may be capable of much more under a better >>>> manager. Its also possible that Mick has got this bunch punching well above >>>> there weight and they will be even worse with another manager....we just >>>> don't know, there lies the risk. >>>> >>>> What I do know is, the team should be showing more improvement, the >>>> squad should have been stregthened more. We all shudder everytime Mick says >>>> he doesn't need to sign more / better players because he's happy with "his" >>>> squad. >>>> >>>> Its Mick's fault we are not improving. Thats the bottom line. .... >>>> >>>> *IMPORTANT*: This email remains the property of the Department of >>>> Defence and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the Crimes Act >>>> 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to >>>> contact the sender and delete the email. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Steven Millward >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 19 December 2011 09:01 >>>> >>>> *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] >>>> >>>> How can I explain this more clearly. >>>> >>>> 90% of the results are down to the quality of players >>>> We have the fourth worst players in the league. >>>> We have no right to finish above where we currently sit >>>> If we look bad in matches it's because we are playing against better >>>> players >>>> >>>> Why do you keep saying its all Mick's fault? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19 December 2011 09:55, Morris, Lee SGT >>>> <lee.mor...@defence.gov.au>wrote: >>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>>> *UNCLASSIFIED* >>>>> To be fair, Steve Morgan needs to address the situation too. >>>>> >>>>> Wolves perfromances on the pitch have shown little or no improvement, >>>>> the manager has to be responsible for that. >>>>> >>>>> The big fear for me is, we change managers and still get relegated, >>>>> and so it all starts again. >>>>> >>>>> *IMPORTANT*: This email remains the property of the Department of >>>>> Defence and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the Crimes Act >>>>> 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to >>>>> contact the sender and delete the email. >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Steven Millward >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 19 December 2011 08:35 >>>>> *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] >>>>> >>>>> Anyone read Soccernomics? I've read extracts but I've just ordered >>>>> it. The author says that 90% of Premier league position is down to wages. >>>>> >>>>> I really don't understand why Mick is the scapegoat. He has the >>>>> fourth cheapest wage bill and the team is fourth from bottom. >>>>> >>>>> If the fans really cared they'd offer to pay double the season ticket >>>>> price to fund better players. >>>>> >>>>> Hmmm. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 19 December 2011 09:04, Paul Crowe >>>>> <pcr...@contechengineering.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Spoke to me Dad last night, who is a season ticket holder in the >>>>>> Steve Bull, >>>>>> apparently Tuesday night against Norwich could be the "last chance >>>>>> saloon >>>>>> game" for MM. He reckons another loss would see the fans turn against >>>>>> him on >>>>>> mass! >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Crowe >>>>>> Sales Manager - Asia Pacific >>>>>> >>>>>> ConTech (Sydney Office) >>>>>> >>>>>> PO Box 3517 >>>>>> Rhodes Waterside >>>>>> Rhodes NSW 2138 >>>>>> Tel: 02 97396636 Fax: 02 97396542 >>>>>> Mob: 0406009562 >>>>>> Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com >>>>>> Website: www.contechengineering.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] >>>>>> On Behalf >>>>>> Of Morris, Lee SGT >>>>>> Sent: Monday, 19 December 2011 8:01 AM >>>>>> To: nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>>> Subject: RE: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] >>>>>> >>>>>> UNCLASSIFIED >>>>>> >>>>>> Apparrantly the fans left him alone this week. >>>>>> >>>>>> My season ticket holding mate seems to think many fans are resigned to >>>>>> the fact that his job is safe, but that can change very quickly. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Paul Hart >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2011 06:55 >>>>>> To: nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? >>>>>> >>>>>> Did MM get any abuse ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18/12/2011, at 4:22 AM, "paul " <pcr...@contechengineering.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > At least Doyle scored. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent via BlackBerry(r) from Telstra >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: "mark worrall" <markworr...@gmail.com> >>>>>> > Sender: nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>>> > Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 03:05:48 >>>>>> > To: <nswolves@googlegroups.com> >>>>>> > Reply-To: nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>>> > Subject: RE: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Passing is atrocious. Henry needs to stop the 50 yard speculative >>>>>> > passes that go straight to Stoke players. Even the short easy passes >>>>>> > are going to their players. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Stoke are the dirtiest team in the league. Nasty tackles, elbows, >>>>>> > shoving, etc even makes Berra look ok. I hope McCarthy calls them >>>>>> for >>>>>> > who they really are. And the tactics won them the match in the 2nd >>>>>> half. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> > Behalf Of Marcus Chantry >>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2011 2:36 AM >>>>>> > To: nswolves@googlegroups.com >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [NSWolves] Anyone watching? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Bad scoreline now and we're creating nothing. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On 18/12/2011, at 3:03 AM, Marcus Chantry <chant...@iinet.net.au> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Good scoreline but quality of game could be better, especially the >>>>>> > crossing. Fletcher hasn't been in the game which is surprising. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -- >>>>>> >> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> >>>>>> IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Department of >>>>>> Defence >>>>>> and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the Crimes Act >>>>>> 1914. >>>>>> If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact >>>>>> the sender and delete the email. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>> >>> -- >>> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >>> >> >> -- >> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >> >> -- >> Boo! Thick Mick Out. >> > > -- Boo! Thick Mick Out.
