On 2/14/2025 12:29 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
Am 14.02.2025 um 11:58 schrieb Hans Hagen <[email protected]>:
On 2/14/2025 11:36 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen <[email protected]>:
On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context <[email protected]>:
On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
«Tagged PDF» still is broken:
\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]
\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]
\starttext
TEST
\stoptext
define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will disable
some other features so you get a different pdf anyway
When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged
PDF : »Yes«.
When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb they
have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat
prescription
(of course not)
anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and not
confuse it with exporting .. think something
\setuptagging
[state=start]
\setupbackend
[format=ua2]
\starttext
TEST
\stoptext
instead.
Hans
Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired alt-text:
\setuptagging
[state=start]
\setupbackend
[format=ua2]
\setupexternalfigures[location=default]
\starttext
\startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
\externalfigure[cow]
\stopPDFalternativetext
\stoptext
Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it
fulfills their needs.
I assume you can try and did so because you indicated that your viewer gave
some report.
Acrobat Reader can be downloaded for free. In the Document Properties it
reports only whether the PDF is a «Tagged PDF» or not. The tags themselves can
only be seen by Acrobat Pro. (Due to the costs probably only publishing house
work with Acrobat Pro.)
I rarely open Acrobat Reader ... if onlty because I then need time to
recover from an acute allergy for intrusive user interface changes and /
or its offer to come up with summaries etc usign some ai and i don't
even know of the file isn't sent somewhere.
Of course you need to make sure not to introduce unwanted spaces (as in your
example).
I didn't want to introduce unwanted spaces. Where are spaces in my example?
after } and then after ]
We can actually put an Alt on a specific image element (by setting label={...})
but for now it's disabled for now. Last time we checked some validators didn't
like it and viewerd didn't do anything useful with it so ity made no sense to
waste more time on it.
Just putting stuff in a pdf for the sake of having something is is tricky
because who knows what future validation makes of it. It's a mess (and always
has been and likely will be).
Strange. I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but at least in Germany
all publisher are obligated by law from 28th of June 2025 on to provide books
as PDF with tags and these alternative texts.
Do they really have to provide books as pdf? I only buy printed books so
I might be out of touch with reality (i.e. getting pdf's). Also, define
publisher ...
I never had a publisher ask for something tagged. If they would come up
with these demands I'd ask them to put their money where their mouth is
(pay for development, extra work involved, tools needed).
How do we manage this?
If 'we' means 'me' (Hans) ... well, some of these rules only apply to
organizations that have a turnaround over 7 digits so I'm way of from
worrying. Mikael and I looked into tagging for educational materials and
stopped where it still made some sense (read: university tools are
happy), and will pick up in a few years when there might be some usefull
tools. Also we found out that with LLM based chatbots can interpret an
untagged pdf quite well so we'll see.
That said: we have tagging in mkiv ... no one really cared that much (no
tools that use them) ... and in mkxl we updated it a bit (still no
tools) only to find out that tagged pdf (and the standard) has become
fluid, seems to evolve, is kind of unstable, is a mess ... does a
conforming 2 year old doc still validate? ... one cannot expect us to
keep adapting for the sake of adapting, right? As it's all volunteer
work, there are more instresting typesetting related things to explore.
Hans
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Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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