Sure, but coming from desktop comp/3D, you never really had any other choice did you? Maybe a few 3D navigation mouse ball thingies 5 years ago, but really, not much.. There hasnt really been much effort to innovate in compositing hardware user input since Quantel fell out of favour..
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that physical controls, knobs, wheels and balls are the be all and end all of interfaces. And I do think that some of it (like the baselight blackboard 2) is as much about bamboozling clients as it is about efficiency. But I don't think its all bullshit either. Grading guys have had the option to use wacoms and keyboards for years, but generally don't. Audio engineers have been been able to use on screen faders with a mouse for years, but generally don't. Some of that is just tradition, and some of that is because it is a genuinly more efficient, nicer way to work.. Now the hardware has dropped to an afforable level (driven largely by software like DaVinci Resolve hitting $1K), It seems like it might be time for us to open ourselves up to something other than typewriters and pointers to manipulate images. -Alex On 18/07/2011 <x-apple-data-detectors://0>, at 4:45 PM, Joerg Bruemmer < [email protected]> wrote: Sure it is just another keyboard, but i guess that it is dedicated to mmorpg and shooters it shows the efficiency, cause you have key boards in games as well. Just my thought. And yes i talking more about clever short cuts than having that mini joystick or other midi controls. I guess it is always a matter of where you coming from. I know people coming from grading who wanna have a panel or something to control things. Me as a somebody coming from comp/3d it is all about key board, mouse and pen. I even switch between pen and mouse for different tasks. :P Cheers, J. Am 18.07.2011 <x-apple-data-detectors://0> um 06:52 schrieb Alex Fry: It's seems like a lot, but in the context of a 5k nuke license, running on a 7k Mac or Pc, with 4k worth of screens (assuming a dreamcolor or similar), the office space they take up, their wages, the wages of the people who wait for them, etc etc... 1500 AU$ for something that makes people faster starts to become plausible... We are talking roughly the same jump in expenditure from a crappy office chair to an Aeron, sure not everyone everywhere gets one, but they arnt exactly rare either.. Its the "Gets by" bit that bothers me.. We do this stuff 50 hours a week, we spend far more time in front of our workstations than we do in our cars, or on our sofas.. Making these machines as comfortable and pleasurable as possible should be a priority for all of us.. Once upon a time the desk of a comper looked like something out of star trek, with dramatic lighting and spectacular machines from the future.. These days, they typically look like call centers.. "Getting by" isnt good enough.. Regarding the G13 gaming board: I can see that it would be cheaper, and need less support from the host application, but at the end of the day it's just a different keyboard. Great, I can map its keys to trigger certain nodes, but thats not really a jump over the F keys. Sure you get an analog XY stick, but only one, and it provides a vector output, not a position.. So in the blur example before, to get a 10 pixel blur I would be holding it 25% to the right, for 1.2 seconds, assuming the input was smooth and my machine wasn't chugging.. with a knob, im able to form a more consistent relationship in my mind, for example, 10 pixel blur is always a quarter turn to the right, half turn for 20 px etc, regardless of the speed the machine is running at the time.. On 18/07/2011 <x-apple-data-detectors://0> <x-apple-data-detectors://0>, at 3:14 AM, Johan Boije <[email protected]> wrote: Dont get me wrong. I'm all for gear that can make you a faster artist. Just saying that you are talking to a crowd that are used to get by and likes their keyboard shortcuts. Also, thinking of how Nuke is used in general at large facilities, probably not client attended. Then that kind of speed maybe isn't top priority. Also I really can't see a facility equipping all stations with something like that, 2k is a lot even for a single station. So this would maybe fit a few customized setups, where people are trying to do more online, TVC style type of work. Probably not that common (yet). So what I am trying to say, I'm guessing that to get something like this working would probably be pretty far down on people's to do list :-( But hey, you never now. Cheers, J On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Alex Fry < <[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: > > No, they aren't currently very used to using it, but I suspect that's > largely because it doesn't exist yet.. > > Keyboards and pointers are good versatile devices, but there are limits to > how fast you can use them, especially when the nuke interface doesn't always > enforce spacial consistency for UI elements. Combine that with the > relatively small hit targets provided by traditional nuke parameter panels > and you have room for, well, improvement.. > I'm sure many of you remember the dramatic difference between how fast you > could drive Shake in the Tremor style interface vs the bog standard sliders > and tabs crapfest that was the standard style Shake interface. > > Imagine for a minute using a panel instead of a normal keyboard in > combination with your Wacom. You map a few of the keys to be the most > commonly used nuke keys, Ctrl, Tab, Space, 1, 2 etc. You perhaps dedicate > the left hand side wheel/ball to viewport and DAG navigation, ball as XY, > wheel as zoom. Whenever you select a node in the DAG it's knobs are mapped > to the row of soft labeled twist pots on the top of the panel. > > Think about that in the context of something as simple as a blur node. > Right now, I have to click on a node, let my eyes track across to parameters > panel, visually lock onto the knob, move my cursor to the slider, get > closer, finetune my movement as it gets closer, click, engage the pot. And > that's best case scenario using a docked panel and a Wacom, the situation is > far worse if I'm using floating panels and a mouse. > In the case of the control surface, I click on the Blur node, and reach for > the first knob, I know which knob it is because Blur Amount is always the > first knob, I know where knob is because I have 3d muscle memory of where > things on my desk are, I don't have to look at because I know where it is.. > I know this sounds like I'm chasing a lost second here, a scanning glance > there, but this is just with a simple node, scale it up to the > ColorCorrector node and you are starting to talk about actual time lost. > This sort of thing is the difference between being "pretty fast" and "really > fast". > > The J_3Way thing is very interesting, but again, doesn't really exist in > the real world outside of a pretty limited beta.. If it became a fully > supported 1st party option from the foundry, which isn't impossible to > imagine, it would cover a lot of cases (but won't be as good when keeping > your eyes on the main screen). Also might be a bit weird to get running in > bigger facilities where the user level wifi is isolated from the main > network where your production nuke machines live, but that's a solvable > problem. > > As Frank pointed Mac/Win only is a bit of an issue. I wonder how much of > that is a technical issue, and how much is simply no application venders > with Linux products licensing it. > They refer to it as an Open standard, but everything I've read seems likes > its not a public standard (prepared to be corrected on that one) > > On 17/07/2011 <x-apple-data-detectors://0> <x-apple-data-detectors://0>, > at 10:03 PM, Johan Boije < <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: > > Don't think the "Nuke crowd" are very used to those type of setups. They > like their keyboard and pen, heck I've even seen compers use mouse instead > of wacom. Imagine the CTS problems they must have. > The closest thing I've seen in Nuke is mr Binks J_3Way with a cool iPad > control. > <http://vimeo.com/14882077> <http://vimeo.com/14882077> > http://vimeo.com/14882077 > > > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Alex Fry < > <[email protected]><[email protected]> > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Has anyone here looked at getting the Avid Artist hardware control >> panels working with Nuke? >> >> I can't really find any documentation about Avid's Eucon protocol. >> Are there any barriers with nuke/python that make this impossible out >> of the gate? >> Is there a clear reason this hasn't been attempted before? >> >> Obviously there are going to be some tricky mapping issues, but now >> this style of hardware is under 2k rather than 30k it's seems like it >> might be worth attempting. >> In my head, an Artist Color panel under my left hand and a Wacom under >> my right should be a pretty good combination. >> Map the currently active node to the panel, display knob names on the >> displays. >> You might find it works well with all of the normal node types, or you >> may find it make sense to make a few gizmos that are more specifically >> tuned to the limits of the panel. >> >> Anyone else out there looking into the same idea? >> _______________________________________________ >> Nuke-python mailing list >> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >> [email protected], >> <http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/><http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/> >> http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ >> >> <http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python><http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python> >> http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python >> > > _______________________________________________ > Nuke-python mailing list > <[email protected]>[email protected], > <http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/>http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ > <http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python> > http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python > > > _______________________________________________ > Nuke-python mailing list > <[email protected]> > [email protected], <http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/> > http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ > <http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python> > http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python > > _______________________________________________ Nuke-python mailing list [email protected], http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python _______________________________________________ Nuke-python mailing list [email protected], http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python _______________________________________________ Nuke-python mailing list [email protected], http://forums.thefoundry.co.uk/ http://support.thefoundry.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nuke-python
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