In practice such a timeout is probably redundant. I wrote a piece of GPL 
software a while back, and most people who purchased a license had been using 
it commercially for a while anyway. They just wanted to confirm that it would 
make them money before they spent any. Once their product achieves some success 
they buy a commercial license because they're worried about being caught. 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Fergal Byrne 
<[email protected]> </div><div>Date:07-18-2015  1:05 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
</div><div>To: Matthew Lohbihler <[email protected]> 
</div><div>Subject: Re: A Note from Donna about NuPIC and the AGPL </div><div>
</div>Hi Austin,

The best example of this is MongoDB, which operates under the AGPL for this 
reason. I cannot take MongoDB on its own, modify it in some way (let's say by 
incorporating a new caching algorithm) and then market it as my own MongoDB++. 
I also couldn't provide MongoDB++ as a service without providing full source to 
my mods.

I also raised your other point with Donna, about using NuPIC as a back end for 
some software service. As far as I can tell, you could simply build an API 
layer on NuPIC and release only that under (A)GPL, while keeping your client 
app completely closed. Since your code is only a "user" of NuPIC, this would 
fall outside the AGPL per se. You would however then be in the territory of 
building technology using Numenta-patented IP, so it'd be wise to think about 
talking to Donna at that point.

On your comments re bootstrapping to an MVP using NuPIC, would it make sense 
for Numenta to develop a "pro-forma" precommercial license, with a timeout such 
as 12 months? This way, you can notify Numenta that you are likely to want to 
negotiate a commercial license, but they give you a year to get to that point 
at no cost. In the event you get no traction, just Open Source your code and 
you're good.

Regards, 

Fergal Byrne

--

Fergal Byrne, Brenter IT

Author, Real Machine Intelligence with Clortex and NuPIC 
https://leanpub.com/realsmartmachines

Speaking on Clortex and HTM/CLA at euroClojure Krakow, June 2014: 
http://euroclojure.com/2014/
and at LambdaJam Chicago, July 2014: http://www.lambdajam.com

http://inbits.com - Better Living through Thoughtful Technology
http://ie.linkedin.com/in/fergbyrne/ - https://github.com/fergalbyrne

e:[email protected] t:+353 83 4214179
Join the quest for Machine Intelligence at http://numenta.org
Formerly of Adnet [email protected] http://www.adnet.ie


On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Austin Marshall <[email protected]> wrote:

I see a couple of issues with the AGPL.  The wording of AGPL is absolute 
regarding "all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network".  
This may become a barrier for anyone potentially interested in a commercial 
license later.  For example, in Lean Startup parlance, I may want to experiment 
with a minimum viable product to gauge interest before investing too much 
effort into developing a commercial product.  If I'm not already planning on 
using AGPL (very few do), I'm forced to consider the implications before I 
start my experimentation.  Personally, I'd rather not have to worry about it -- 
I'd want to get users on my mvp as early as possible and not have to delay the 
process with commercial license negotiations, especially since I'd be at a 
disadvantage, not having any experience with the technology and not having much 
of an opportunity to make an informed estimate of the commercial viability.  
Google has even taken a stand and outright banned AGPL-licensed software for 
internal use 
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/google_on_open_source_licenses/).  I 
find that position to be reasonable, and I'm sure they are not alone.

I'm also skeptical about the enforceability the AGPL with respect to closing 
the loophole.  Let's say I want to get my product out and either don't want to 
seek out a commercial license or don't want to do it now.  I might argue that, 
in many ways, you can incorporate nupic into your tech stack and not be 
required to share your source.  For example, let's say I have a product that 
makes recommendations, and behind the scenes I use nupic in some small part of 
an ensemble.  If this process is done in an offline/batch mode on behalf of the 
user and only the results conveyed to the user, then I might argue that my user 
has no interaction with nupic, and therefore my service is not subject to the 
virality of the AGPL.

In other words, I'm either likely to avoid it like the plague, or try to get 
crafty.  I'm not convinced that the AGPL helps in the long term adoption of 
nupic and related software, from either free or commercial licensing 
standpoints.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Matthew Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:
Good questions...

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Dean Horak <[email protected]> wrote:
> How does a project transition from GPLv3 to a different license, when all the 
> existing code has already been released as GPLv3. I assume that the GPLv3 
> license will remain in effect for all existing code, and only new code 
> specifically contributed by Numenta specifically identified as AGPL will be 
> affected by this.

Correct. The NuPIC (and related) code that currently exists on Github,
and all the history of that code, is GPLv3. There is nothing we can do
about that, it will always be GPLv3. When we change the license to
AGPLv3, from that point forward, the repository and all future
developments in the repo will be AGPLv3. So there will be a line drawn
in time at the commit SHA when we make the license change.

> But what about community contributed code?  Surely Numenta cannot force the 
> community to adopt AGPLv3 should they choose not to since Numenta is 
> technically only a contributor (albeit the prime contributor) as well and not 
> the "owner" of the codebase.

Actually, Numenta is the sole copyright owner of the NuPIC codebase,
and the copyright owner has control over the license of the code. This
means that Numenta, as the copyright owner, has the legal right to
change the license without input from any contributors, because all
contributors signed our Contributor License Agreement [1] that signs
over all their copyright of their contributions to Numenta.

> Do contributors have the option of choosing AGPLv3 or GPLv3?  I suppose a 
> vote from the community to adopt AGPLv3 for all future code could be enforced 
> by the committers - only allowing AGPLv3 code into the codebase, but this 
> seemingly could lead to a fork of the code, which is probably not a desirable 
> outcome at this point.

No, contributors will not get a choice in the matter. If this codebase
were copyright many authors, a vote would be necessary to change the
license. But because Numenta is the sole copyright owner, a vote is
unnecessary. We do, however, care what our contributors think about
licenses, and we certainly to not make such changes wantonly.

> Again, I do not expect that this will have any real impact on me, but in the 
> spirit of clarity and transparency, I think response to these types of 
> questions should be considered.

I am happy to answer any more questions.

[1] http://numenta.org/licenses/cl
---------
Matt Taylor
OS Community Flag-Bearer
Numenta



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