Nobody is saying to go out and harass every bird EXCEPT owls. Yes, you can flush a Yellow-rump, a Junco, sparrows, and just about every bird in our guides. But saying that flushing these birds and birders/photographers chasing a Snowy Owl up and down a beach is the same is wrong. Reading a quote like " Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few hundred yards down the beach? I really do not think so and I have no clue why so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundreds of miles south didn't they?" First of all when birders/photographers flush a Snowy Owl down the beach a few hundred yards they don't call it a day and they don't leave. Most of them walk the beach and again get to close and flush it again. I have seen this sort of behavior go on for hours and if you don't see an issue with this then shame on you. Snowy Owls don't fly hundreds of miles to go on a vacation and usually by the time they get this far south they're all beat up and lacking food, water, and rest. When you get a chance talk to someone who specializes in owl rehabilitation and they will tell you that a good deal of these Snowy Owls will never see the tundra again. I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting. Why is that? Find a Snowy Owl, set up a chair or if you can sit in your car, and wait till dusk. Most of the time when I see Snowy Owls hunting its well after dusk. Thats why some people (including myself) do take issue with people flushing them during the day because most of the time they're just trying to rest. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not "on its mind", that it is not extremely aware of your presents? Of course we are on his mind and nobody is arguing that BUT I have been to places with large groups of people watching Snowy Owls and if you stand back at a reasonable distance they never flush and I have seen plenty close they're eyes and rest. Just because the owl is aware of our presence doesn't mean that we are doing harm to the bird. Now even though the photographers move up slowly you'll see an alert owl who focuses in on them and eventually gets up and flies. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Well then in your 30 years of birding you must have missed a bunch because most photographers go to great lengths to get "the shot". Some have the patience to wait for good pictures but plenty need to cross that line to do whatever they have to in order to fill that memory card, get home, and upload all those photos. I have never seen a birder bring bait to bring an owl in closer. I have never seen a birder climb a tree and cut branches to get a better picture of that roosting owl. Most photographers will lie or stand still and quietly most of the time. Maybe when it comes to other bird species but they have little patience to wait for owls. Normally you'll see them pull up, hop out of the car, set up the camera, and just start walking right towards the resting owl. Rarely will they be standing back with the rest of the clear headed birders watching from a safe distance. The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the beach. They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel disturbed they will fly. That is about the best they can do. Your absolutely right on this one. Most Snowy Owls that fly south have plenty to deal with. Whether it's dog walkers, joggers, atv's, cars, and of course us birders/photographers. Thats why we need to make sure that we are doing our part to not add any extra stress to them.
Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:31:10 -0500 Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state. I find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much missed the real point. I have no clue why people get so up in arms about flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people that I am about to criticize are people that I bird with frequently, people that I have known for over 20 years, people that have been to my home and my wedding. I find it all extremely contradictory and hypocritical . The same people that are finger pointing and bad mouthing and video taping and planning secret groups because a few people get too close to a bird, have no problem walking through the east pond and fulshing hundreds if not thousands of migratory shorebirds that are desparately trying to refuel for their huge migration south. Is is possible to walk the east pond without flushing loads of birds? Does any one care if they flush a flock of peeps, dowitchers or yellow legs or even give at a second thought while they are searching for a Godwit or Stint? They have no probelm walking through a field in the fall and flushing hordes of birds in the hopes that a Clay Colored or Lark Sparrow be found amongst the hordes of Savannah Sparrows and Song Sparrows and more common species. Can anyone see a sparrow in NY without flushing it first? These same people have no problem pshing in any number of song birds during migration. Doesn't that disturb these birds more than an occasional flush by a photographer or flash? The examples are endless. What birder has not flushed flock after flock of Dunlin and Sanderling while walking on the beach at Breezy and Jones Beach looking for one of those Snowy Owls? What birder has not crashed through median strip at Jones Beach looking for Crossbills or Sawwhets and not flushed Yellowrumps and Juncos, etc. What birder has not walked the trail out to Breezy and not flushed numerous Yellowrupms and Cardinals and blackbirds. What birder has not walked near a pond and not had every duck swim to the other side of it? What birder has not flushed loads of Ring-billed and Herring Gulls on the beach while trying to find a Glaucous or Iceland Gull? What birder has not walked through central park and not flushed a Hermit thrush or Ovenbird? I have never gone to Point Lookout and seen the Harlequin Ducks without them continuously swimming away from me. Maybe they just don't like me but I think that they are obviously wary of people and do their best to keep their distance. The obvious answer to all of my questions is that it is impossible to be a birder and to not continuously disturb birds. Do any of us really think that everytime we walk on a beach or thrugh the woods or in a field that we are not disturbing the birds that are trying to see? I am not in any way condoning someone who is purposely flushing an owl or approaching unnecessarily close. But we need to keep in perspective what it is that all of us (certainly including myself) are doing every time we enter the field? I do not think that you can randolmly decide what birds are OK to disturb and which ones are not. That seems to be an absurd thing to do. All of us, photgraphers and birders alike need to be aware of our impact on our surroundings and stop pointing the fingers at others. And now for what may get me lynched. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not "on its mind", that it is not extremely aware of your presence? Do you think that it feels comfortable hunting while a crowd is present? I don't. At least most photographers will make a reasonable effort to slowly approach these birds so that they can actually not make it fly. That is how you get a good picture isn't it? These birds are comming to public places and are surrounded by dogs and loads of people. When they are bothered enough, they will fly. Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few hundred yards down the beach? I really do not think so and I have no clue why so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundereds of miles south didn't they? I would argue that the continued presence of a crowd of birders in a field or a swamp or the beach has a much greater negative impact on the birds than people may think. I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting. Why is that? Probably because I was there and wether or not I approached it too closely still did not mean that I was not disturbing the bird. These birds are choosing to or have been forced to winter in what is unfortunately a public area. The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the beach. They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel distrubed they will fly. That is about the best they can do. My experience has been that if you are birding anywhere (and I have lots of experience having birdered in every continent other than Antarctica) and you are still and quiet then you will see more birds. The birds seem to not be disturbed as much and will approach extremely close without being alarmed or flushing. Ever see a bird and it flies as soon as you pick up your binoucluars to look at it? You disturbed it by your movements. Most photoagraphers will lie or stand still and quitely most of the time. In my opinion that disturbs the birds less than a group of birders talking and snapping pictures. So what does that mean for birders vs. photographers. Well it means nothing. Everyone always thinks that someone else is doing more harm than they are. I think you look quickly and then leave and that is what will cause the least disturbance to these birds. I think that 30 people that are at a reasonable distance does a lot more harm than everyone is talking about. My vote is that birders are doing more harm than the photograhers. And we all need to look in the mirror a little bit more before we point the finger toward others. -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
