Yep, I agree. But that's just me agreeing with it. Unless the spec clearly says it everybody will throw different ideas and use cases. That's why I want the spec to clarify this.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2020, 1:42 PM Justin Richer, <jric...@mit.edu> wrote: > Why would the client need to know the refresh token’s expiry? Can’t they > just use the refresh token and see? Either way it’s a single round trip to > the AS and the client gets the same answer with the same recovery code path. > > — Justin > > On Mar 4, 2020, at 2:01 PM, Bill Jung < > bjung=40pingidentity....@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > The question started when some RPs (client apps) asked that AS allow > introspection endpoint to RPs so that RPs can check their refresh > token's expiry. If AS allows this, which the spec is not clear about, then > AS needs to know if the request is coming from RP or RS so that AS can > allow the Access Token introspection to RS only. But then is that the right > thing to do even? > > Surely some clarification will eliminate the time spent on unnecessary > discussion among developers. > > <https://www.pingidentity..com/>[image: Ping Identity] > <https://www.pingidentity.com/> > Bill Jung > Manager, Response Engineering > bj...@pingidentity.com > w: +1 604.697.7037 > Connect with us: [image: Glassdoor logo] > <https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Ping-Identity-EI_IE380907.11,24.htm> > [image: > LinkedIn logo] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/21870> [image: twitter > logo] <https://twitter.com/pingidentity> [image: facebook logo] > <https://www.facebook.com/pingidentitypage> [image: youtube logo] > <https://www.youtube.com/user/PingIdentityTV> [image: Blog logo] > <https://www.pingidentity.com/en/blog.html> > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.pingidentity.com/content/dam/ping-6-2-assets/Assets/faqs/en/consumer-attitudes-post-breach-era-3375.pdf?id%3Db6322a80-f285-11e3-ac10-0800200c9a66&source=gmail&ust=1541693608526000&usg=AFQjCNGBl5cPHCUAVKGZ_NnpuFj5PHGSUQ> > <https://www.pingidentity.com/en/events/d/identify-2019.html> > <https://www.pingidentity.com/content/dam/ping-6-2-assets/Assets/Misc/en/3464-consumersurvey-execsummary.pdf> > > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 9:33 PM David Waite <david= > 40alkaline-solutions....@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> On Mar 1, 2020, at 10:11 PM, Andrii Deinega <andrii.dein...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > How would the authorization server know who actually uses the >> > introspection endpoint assuming that a protected resource and a client >> > application use the same credentials (client_id and client_secret)? >> >> In the external context, you have a client accessing a protected resource >> with an access token. The client should treat the token as opaque, and >> RFC7662 makes no allowances for that client to introspect its tokens. >> >> If you control both the client and protected resource, you may decide to >> short-cut and have them share credentials. However, the client logic still >> should never be introspecting the tokens. >> >> The security considerations also say that you must prove the >> authentication of the protected resource, which I have interpreted to mean >> that access tokens used to authorize the call to the introspection endpoint >> must be issued to a confidential client - public clients cannot protect >> credentials to perform an authentication. You want to limit introspection >> to prevent denial of service and probing attacks, and to limit the amount >> of information on viable attacks conveyed if someone steals a token. >> >> -DW >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > Andrii >> > >> > On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 7:38 PM David Waite < >> da...@alkaline-solutions.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I would expect the AS to invalidate the refresh token in this case, >> which would not require a refresh token mode nor necessarily any signaling >> back to the resource. >> >> >> >> -DW >> >> >> >>> On Mar 1, 2020, at 12:12 AM, Andrii Deinega <andrii.dein...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hello Bill, >> >>> >> >>> I'm just thinking out loud about possible scenarios for a protected >> >>> resource here... It may decide to revoke a refresh token if a client >> >>> application tried to use it instead of an access token when the >> >>> protected resource is paranoid about security. In order to do that an >> >>> introspection response should include a non-standard parameter which >> >>> indicates that the requested token is refresh_token. >> >>> >> >>> A user of the introspection endpoint should rely only on a value of >> >>> the active parameter (which is a boolean indicator) of the endpoint >> >>> response. This applies to both types of tokens. Note, the expiration >> >>> date, as well as other parameters, are defined as optional in the >> >>> specification. Both token types can be revoked before the expiration >> >>> date comes even if this parameter is presented as part of the >> >>> response. In my opinion, there are a number of reasons why this check >> >>> (for a refresh token) can be useful on the client application side. >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Andrii >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 1:59 AM Bill Jung >> >>> <bjung=40pingidentity....@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hello, hopefully I am using the right email address. >> >>>> >> >>>> Simply put, can this spec be enhanced to clarify "Who can use the >> introspection endpoint for a refresh token? A resource provider or a client >> app or both?" >> >>>> >> >>>> RFC7662 clearly mentions that the user of introspection endpoint is >> a 'protected resource' and that makes sense for an access token. If we >> allow this to client apps, it'll give unnecessary token information to them. >> >>>> However, the spec also mentions that refresh tokens can also be used >> against the endpoint. >> >>>> In case of refresh tokens, user of the endpoint should be a client >> app because refresh tokens are used by clients to get another access token. >> (Cannot imagine how/why a resource server would introspect a refresh token) >> >>>> >> >>>> Is it correct to assume that the endpoint should be allowed to >> client apps if they want to examine refresh token's expiry time? Then the >> RFC should clearly mention it. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks in advance. >> >>>> >> >>>> <Details from the spec> >> >>>> In https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7662 >> >>>> In '1. Introduction' section says, >> >>>> "This specification defines a protocol that allows authorized >> >>>> protected resources to query the authorization server to determine >> >>>> the set of metadata for a given token that was presented to them by >> >>>> an OAuth 2.0 client." >> >>>> Above makes clear that user of the endpoint is a "protected >> resource". >> >>>> >> >>>> And under 'token' in '2.1. Introspection Request' section says, >> >>>> "For refresh tokens, >> >>>> this is the "refresh_token" value returned from the token endpoint >> >>>> as defined in OAuth 2.0 [RFC6749], Section 5.1." >> >>>> So looks like a refresh token is allowed for this endpoint.. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Bill Jung >> >>>> Manager, Response Engineering >> >>>> bj...@pingidentity.com >> >>>> w: +1 604.697.7037 >> >>>> Connect with us: >> >>>> >> >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and >> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). 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