On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Alec, > > Just so that I'm sure I understand you. Unless each piece of our "first > instance" work is individually made publicly available somewhere, then > people who wish to derive from the OGC contained in our netbooks, they > would have to use the entirety of the Section 15 from each netbook derived > from. Further, each entry in the netbook must contain a separate line item > in Section 15, with no collapsing. > > Item A, Copyright 2001, Joe Blow > Item B, Copyright 2001, Joe Blow > > instead of > > Item A and Item B, Copyright 2001, Joe Blow
Technically, someone using OGC from your netbook would need to include the entire copyright notice of your netbook. That's the source they got the OGC from. They don't have access to the "first instance" source - even though you're claiming to have given them the exact Section 15 from that "first instance" publication. Generally this is a benefit for the OGL community as it prevents someone from being cut out of the attribution loop because someone believes they are just using material from the product they have (I call this B) that simply is a reproduction of another product (I call this one A). So why should I mention B in my product if all the OGC I'm using really comes from A? B is simply the product I own whereas I don't have A. But B makes it clear that the OGC I'm using really belongs to A. Seems like I should be able to just mentin A in the copyright. The problem is two-fold. First, since B is actually your source, B does deserve mention in your product. This is more of an ethical argument however. Second, without actually having A, there's no way I can be certain that what I take from B truly is exactly as it appears in A. B could have changes something - perhaps even slightly and without realizing it. So by leaving B out of the loop, if A gets mad at what I do and comes after me because of the mistake, I'm not completely on the hook for whatever happens. I can't complain that it was B that made the mistake or in turn go after B after I settle with A. I've claimed that I used A as my source. The earlier we are in open gamig movement, the easier it is to accurately trim out an attribution like B in the case above and not make mistakes. Two years from now it's going to become more difficult. Five years from now it's likely to become close to impossible. (my guesstimates - no guarantees offerred on time frame) Now, with netbooks I understand the desire to both retain individual copyrights/credits for each author as well as provide a means of permitting other to re-use just specific items without having to replicate the entire Section 15 because it contains every single item in the netbook. But the method you're currently proposing has two problems in my opinion. The first isn't a legal problem, but the fact that essentially you're removing the netbook entirely from Section 15 so the netbook gets no credit. It deserves some in my opinion. It'd be nice if both the contributor and the netbook could be mentioned without dragging in all the other contributors. The second is a legal issue, in that the way people get the Section 15 for each individual entry is by relying on your assertion of what that Section 15 is in the private "first instance" publication. This is really little different than Sovereign Stones assertion that the Sailor is completely taken from DLoM. Since I know that SSCS must therefore completely replicate Section 15 from DoLM, if all I'm using from SSCS I could argue that there's really no need to mention SSCS because I'm not using any original OGC from them. But really I should go and get DoLM and make sure that is accurate. In the case of the netbook I should do the same with each item I use. But since this "first instance" publication you're talking about is a private transaction between the netbook people and each individual contributor that is impossible. Everyone could decide to simply accept your assertion that you've completely & accurately exactly duplicated each contribution (making no additions, subtractions or modification) and then do a wink-wink, nudge-nudge approach of saying that I saw the item in the netbook and then when I decided to use it in my own work I went and checked the "first instance" publication and used that as my source. Someone could do the same with the sailor in SSCS. But with the netbook everyone knows that there is no way the person actually went and looked at the earlier publication. It's been suggested before (I think Brad Thompson may have suggested first but am not certain) but it'd be better if each individual contribution was available somewhere as a seperate entity. Since this is a net project, the easiest solution would be to have each have it's own web page. Now I'm not proficient enough with web-authoring, but if there could be some way for the OGL to be a link on each individual page and that the link to the OGL automatically updated Section 15 so that it mentions just that entry. I'd suggest that the entry be jointly copyrighted by the contributor and the netbook project. The netbook project would technically be copyrighting the web page presentation of the item, so the author still has full copyright on the item itself. But this gets the netbook back into Section 15 so that people are aware of the project when others use the item in their works. Of course this probably sounds like a lot of work when the majority of people (those who are just game players) could care less about being able to access the individual items and are just going to use the netbook for their private games. But to actually make it so OGL publishers who want to use the netbook don't have to cite the entire Section 15 of the netbook you have to actually be able to point people to some place where they can actually get the just the entries they want to use. The project can either do this itself, or you could require all contributors to actually publisher their material somewhere that people can access it (i.e. their own web page). I think it's better if the netbook does it myself. alec _______________________________________________ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
