Antonio, First of all you explain yourself really well, and write english better than a lot of people I know who live here.
That said, I did understand the meaning of win. I was being funny, and perhaps that slipped through the translation cracks. What understood as win is that Hibernate wins the competition to OJB, and OJB is the loser no one looks at or is much less popular. My question is though, is it THAT important that OJB be #1? I know Apache is, and for very good reasons, but Apache is a different beast that existed at a different time and plays in a much different OS market. We're sitting in smack in the middle of the hottest market bed there is: Java, JDO, EJB, and J2EE. I don't know of a more hotly contested area of java right now. It is by far the busiest area of technology and there are new things invented every hour. I'd love OJB to be popular. It justifies my hours of research before I decided to dive in and use it over Hibernate. It might become and it might not. As far as JDO is concerned and friend of mine and I are already looking with Brian McCallister on how we would approach the JDO implementation and what is needed for it. I know Thomas has started working on the parser, perhaps the hardest part of the whole thing. So we're moving forward and everyone is doing what they can to keep it going forward, and that's important. I also believe we have a better framework already in place which would allow us to do that. I don't think Hibernate does. What's important is that we never allow OJB to become a political OS project. It's important that we write what we believe is useful and right. It's important that we write it well, present a product that performs well, and goes beyond what people expect from it. What's not important is playing the "I want to be popular too" game, and play right into the political game, which is only an emotional battle over territory all for the benefit of cry babies and ass kissers. In the end, the people who will be so fed up with the political garbage going on, will migrate to OJB simply because it's there, it's quiet and friendly, and it does everything they need, without the added lameness political issues bring along. What we do need to do right now is spew out an official version 1.0, and let the rest come along. R On 6/2/04 11:56 PM, "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Robert Sfeir dijo: >> Win what? :-) >> >> The whole thing about java and open source is choice, there is no winner. >> Yes there could be more adopters, and yes some of the Hibernate stuff will >> end up in EJB 3.0, but in the end EJB is EJB, and the complexity of it all >> is not for every project. OJB is for every project, it's lightweight and >> follows existing standards, Hibernate doesn't, and EJB 3 is a ways out. >> >> If EJB 3 is Hibernate, good let Hibernate go to the dogs with EJB3 and in >> the end OJB will be around for people like most of us on here who really >> don't want to deal with the layers EJB brings along. > > Hi Robert and all: > > I know you recently wrote an article about OJB. As you remember, I also > send a post to TSS, but was never published. The reason why they decided > to not publish, is obscure to me. But amazing is that, after I ranting at > TSS a new Cocoon article that I posted a link few days before my public > rant, was published! The OJB article never. I will try to post it again. > > The "win" expression is a metaphore. For some people (including me), > english is not our first language and it is hard to express correctly what > we think in your language. > > In the literal sense of "win", maybe there are no winners expressed in a > cash income. I think even in OS there are winners too. ie: The Apache > httpd project is a winner. It is used for more than 60% of web servers in > the world and not just because it is free. And is perceived also as a > winner. A winner in the same sense when you win a race in the school. You > don't receive a money (or nothing) for your victory, but you are happy of > that. You feel as a winner. > > In the same sense, I think we need to let developers know that here is a > wonderful project called OJB. I think Open Source projects also need > publicity (as your article) and more links to OJB in the web. I already do > little efforts about that. I will be glad to see more OJB users. > > I have also concerns that the Open Source world is become very political. > Today I hear more often hear people saying that "because of politics" > things go this way. I think it damage the overall OS communities. I think > that the big commercial player have a big share in that. They need to > protect own products. But maybe I am wrong here. As a sample, see the > votation against JDO in JCP. > > While we are talking about all this, I also wanted to tell that EJB3 is > often perceived as a big slow and complex. In cotrast, there are many > lightweight containers that already probed to be good enough in a far > easier way. And that is important too. OJB have a place there too! > > Weeks ago, I sent a mail to jdocentral requesting for a change in the link > to OJB. They had an old link there. On the mail I explained OJB developing > a JDO RI. The answer received from David Jordan was: > > "I hope OJB becomes fully compliant with JDO soon. > MANY are wanting this as an open source alternative. > Many have said they will not consider the commercial > offerings until such an open source implementation > is also available." > > So we have a challenge, many people outhere is waiting for us! :-D > > Best Regards, > > Antonio Gallardo. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Robert S. Sfeir Technical Lead HHS Portal robert_sfeir(at)sra.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
