Hello, Ben
Thank you for your excellent explanation of the English words.
Normative text is an ISO terminology and supported by each
standardization origination, which you cannot find in any dictionary. For
instance, IETF is using MUST/SHOULD/MAY as specified in RFC2119, which is a
standardization community agreement made 20 years ago. ONAP is following the
IETF way as defined in section 3 of the VNF requirement document. But 3GPP is
using SHALL/SHOULD/MAY as specified in 3GPP TR21.801. 3GPP2 has same definition
in 3GPP2 SC.R1005.
You shall not assume that ONAP is going to use the same normative text which is
used in another RAN standardization origination. As I recommended early, please
read RFC2119.
Have a nice day
Zu Qiang
From: Cheung, Ben (Nokia - US/Murray Hill) <ben.che...@nokia.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 9:13 AM
To: Zu Qiang <zu.qi...@ericsson.com>; WRIGHT, STEVEN A <sw3...@att.com>
Cc: 'onap-discuss@lists.onap.org' <onap-discuss@lists.onap.org>; Hillis, Marge
(Nokia - US) <marge.hil...@nokia.com>
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text > SHOULD vs SHALL
Zu Qiang,
English is my primary language.
Difference Between Shall and Should. The basic difference between “shall” and
“should” is that “should” is the past tense of “shall.” ... “Should” is the
conditional form used for “shall.” Occasionally it is used as a past tense of
“shall.”
There is also a second sense indicating a strength of assertion. In 20
years of writing requirements for RAN systems we have always used “SHALL”
instead of “SHOULD”.
shall
SHal,SHəl/ verb modal verb: shall
1. (in the first person) expressing the future tense. "this time next week I
shall be in Scotland"
2. expressing a strong assertion or intention. "they shall succeed"
should
SHo͝od,SHəd/ verb modal verb: should
1. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when
criticizing someone's actions.
2. used to indicate what is probable.
Best regards,
-Ben Cheung, PhD, DMTS, ALTA
ATF Architecture Systems Engineer
Mobile Networks, Nokia
Tel +1 (908) 679-6615
Email ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>
600-700 Mountain Ave, Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA / #2C-378
From: Zu Qiang [mailto:zu.qi...@ericsson.com]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 8:15 AM
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text > SHOULD vs SHALL
English is not my first language. But I believe Steven can help with this.
In standardization English language, both “SHALL” and “MUST” means “REQUIRED”.
For instance, 3GPP is using “SHALL” and IETF is using “MUST”. “SHOULD” means
“RECOMMENDED”. “MAY” means “OPTIONAL”. For more details, please read RFC2119.
Have a nice day
Zu Qiang
From: Cheung, Ben (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)
<ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 7:54 AM
To: Zu Qiang <zu.qi...@ericsson.com<mailto:zu.qi...@ericsson.com>>; WRIGHT,
STEVEN A <sw3...@att.com<mailto:sw3...@att.com>>
Cc: 'onap-discuss@lists.onap.org'
<onap-discuss@lists.onap.org<mailto:onap-discuss@lists.onap.org>>; Hillis,
Marge (Nokia - US) <marge.hil...@nokia.com<mailto:marge.hil...@nokia.com>>
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text > SHOULD vs SHALL
All,
REQUIREMENTS TEXT should be using “SHALL” not “SHOULD”.
I SHOULD have gone to the market. (PAST Tense desire)
He SHALL go to the market. (Indicates that REQUIRED future need)
The system SHOULD have activated the LED (but it was too late).
The system SHALL activate the LED (when xyz occurs).
Difference Between Shall and Should. The basic difference between “shall” and
“should” is that “should” is the past tense of “shall.” ... “Should” is the
conditional form used for “shall.” Occasionally it is used as a past tense of
“shall.”
shall
SHal,SHəl/ verb modal verb: shall
1. (in the first person) expressing the future tense. "this time next week I
shall be in Scotland"
2. expressing a strong assertion or intention. "they shall succeed"
Best regards,
-Ben Cheung, PhD, DMTS, ALTA
ATF Architecture Systems Engineer
Mobile Networks, Nokia
Tel +1 (908) 679-6615
Email ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>
600-700 Mountain Ave, Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA / #2C-378
From: Zu Qiang [mailto:zu.qi...@ericsson.com]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 7:34 AM
To: WRIGHT, STEVEN A <sw3...@att.com<mailto:sw3...@att.com>>
Cc: Cheung, Ben (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)
<ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>>;
'onap-discuss@lists.onap.org'
<onap-discuss@lists.onap.org<mailto:onap-discuss@lists.onap.org>>
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text
Hello, Steven
According to the vnf requirement section 3, “Requirements are
identified as either MUST, MUST NOT, SHOULD, SHOULD NOT, or MAY as defined in
RFC 2119.” Unfortunately, RFC2119 is specified in last century. Do we have any
plan to update that requirement by including “SHALL” as normative text in
Casablanca?
Have a nice day
Zu Qiang
From: Cheung, Ben (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)
<ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 1:42 PM
To: Zu Qiang <zu.qi...@ericsson.com<mailto:zu.qi...@ericsson.com>>; WRIGHT,
STEVEN A <sw3...@att.com<mailto:sw3...@att.com>>; 'onap-discuss@lists.onap.org'
<onap-discuss@lists.onap.org<mailto:onap-discuss@lists.onap.org>>
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text
Qiang Zu,
· Is the requirements list in your comment the revised requirements
only? You can move the proposed text into description section to avoid
confusion.
· Please use the normative text "MUST", "SHOULD", "MAY" as requested in
section 3
· [BEN] – I have rechecked my text … All of the requirements do have
“Should”/“Shall”, or “May”. After 20 years of writing requirements that is a
rare mistake for me to make. I have highlighted this in red text below (in this
email thread).
·
· The reference to the 5G PnP wiki page must be removed. The 5G PnP
wiki has too many non-normative text.
· [BEN] – I COMPLETELY disagree!!! The usefulness of a Wiki and
hyperlinks is that a reader can find out related and other relevant information
which I think is very appropriate and useful. That is why a Wiki is more useful
than a traditional paper “static” dictionary or encyclopedia. This was the
fundamental invention of HTTP (Hypertext), welcome to the 21st century.
·
· Any requirements beyond Casablanca release must be removed. If we
believe the function will be implemented in Dublin, we can keep the
requirements in a new Jira tickets in backlog.
· [BEN] – I can remove the one R4 requirement, [1300]
·
· We should keep the normative text only and remove all the explanation
text in the notes. If anyone would like to have a better understanding on how
the 5G PnP works, he/she should read the 5G PnP wiki page.
· [BEN] – I COMPLETELY disagree with this notion. If there is
“non-normative” requirements text (text that is not “shall/should”, “must”,
“may”), it shall belong to a note – this can help a reader understand why a
requirement is structured or worded the way it is. Clarifying text or notes are
a way for the author to convey vital background that might be needed to
describe engineering decisions, and the logical through processes of the
systems engineer.
I'll come back with some detail rewording proposals if we can have an agreement
on the general part first.
Best regards,
-Ben Cheung, PhD, DMTS, ALTA
ATF Architecture Systems Engineer
Mobile Networks, Nokia
Tel +1 (908) 679-6615
Email ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>
600-700 Mountain Ave, Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA / #2C-378
From: Zu Qiang [mailto:zu.qi...@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 2:05 PM
To: Cheung, Ben (Nokia - US/Murray Hill)
<ben.che...@nokia.com<mailto:ben.che...@nokia.com>>; WRIGHT, STEVEN A
<sw3...@att.com<mailto:sw3...@att.com>>; 'onap-discuss@lists.onap.org'
<onap-discuss@lists.onap.org<mailto:onap-discuss@lists.onap.org>>
Subject: RE: #vnfrqts PNP text
Hello, Steven
The following is my comment on the Jira page which no response
is received yet.
hello, Benjamin
Cheung<https://jira.onap.org/secure/ViewProfile.jspa?name=bencheung>, Thanks
for updating the requirements text.
I have some general comments here:
· Is the requirements list in your comment the revised requirements
only? You can move the proposed text into description section to avoid
confusion.
· Please use the normative text "MUST", "SHOULD", "MAY" as requested in
section 3
· The reference to the 5G PnP wiki page must be removed. The 5G PnP
wiki has too many non-normative text.
· Any requirements beyond Casablanca release must be removed. If we
believe the function will be implemented in Dublin, we can keep the
requirements in a new Jira tickets in backlog.
· We should keep the normative text only and remove all the explanation
text in the notes. If anyone would like to have a better understanding on how
the 5G PnP works, he/she should read the 5G PnP wiki page.
I'll come back with some detail rewording proposals if we can have an agreement
on the general part first.
Have a nice day
Zu Qiang
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