Hi Steve,
The points you've raised are the same ones that prompted my email. Anyone is always welcome at any Subcommittee meeting either as an active participant, accidental tourist, interested party or concerned onlooker. They do not have to be on the wiki membership roster or the mailing list to attend a meeting. However, even if they passively attend a meeting and do perform work behind the scenes, they would be missing any and all of the email-based discussions for the subcommittee. As mentioned, I haven't really looked into Seccom yet so I don't know its status, but in a more general sense attendance records for the subcommittee meetings seem to be sparse or non-existent. Without such records is not possible to identify people on the membership roster who may be passively listening to the meetings at a minimum. There is no way to differentiate them from someone on the roster in name only that neither attends meetings or receives email. A governance model where "Membership" has no real definition or meaning is not governance. The question is, "Do we care about that?" Speaking on a purely personal level as Kenny the community member and not Kenny the PM, yes, I do care great deal. I care because in less than a minute anyone in the world can benefit themselves while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to contribute to our community. All it takes is adding their name to a roster and then they can put "ONAP XYZ Subcommittee Member" on their resume or list of accomplishments. While using what we produce without contributing may be unfortunate, but perfectly acceptable in open source, using us to benefit just ain't right. End personal opinion. One year after the launch of our project there were still dozens of approved Committers that had never even received their credentials for to perform a commit. Just as we've been cleaning that up, based upon what I've discovered, it seems that the subcommittee membership is the next area to address. Thanks! -kenny From: <ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org> on behalf of Stephen Terrill <stephen.terr...@ericsson.com> Reply-To: <ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org> Date: Monday, August 27, 2018 at 12:21 AM To: "ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org" <ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org> Subject: Re: [onap-tsc] Definition of Subcommittee Membership Hi Kenny, I’ve struggled with this a little from the security sub-committee and decided not to focus on it, the reason comes down to what does it mean to be a member. We have people actively participating (which is great) – and that is important irrespective of whether they are identified as members. I do hope that all active participants can identify themselves as members. We have people listening in to the calls that may be normally quite. I do not, however know, what they are doing behind the scenes to connect the dots – and I wouldn’t want to project any view that they are not welcome join, or participate, or listen whether or not they identify themselves as a member or not. We can have people that are formally identified as members, that don’t do the above. We could go down the path of “active membership”, however and have criteria like meeting attendance, wiki updates etc; but do we clearly gain when anyway at the end of the day the sub-committeess are advisory and work on rough consensus. BR, Steve From: ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org <ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org> On Behalf Of Alla Goldner Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 8:48 AM To: ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org Subject: Re: [onap-tsc] Definition of Subcommittee Membership Hi Kenny, As you mention below: As defined in 4.4.1.3 Subcommittee Chair / Vice Chair Elections : The Chair or Vice-Chair will be elected by members of the subcommittee as of the date the nomination process starts for the election. Section 4.4.1.4 Subcommittee Voter Eligibility the criteria only defines: Voting for a Chair or Vice-Chair is not limited to ONAP member companies. However only 1 Subcommittee member from each company, or group of related companies may vote in the election. Therefore, at least my reading is that the problem you describe below may exist only if at least one of assigned voting members (max 1 per company or group of related companies) is not fully identified as a subcommittee member, as only they should be getting a ballot. Is it the case? Best regards, Alla Goldner Open Network Division Amdocs Technology From: ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org [mailto:ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org] On Behalf Of Kenny Paul Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 11:37 PM To: onap-tsc <ONAP-TSC@lists.onap.org> Subject: [onap-tsc] Definition of Subcommittee Membership TSC Members, I have run into an issue I have a concern with the Subcommittee elections. I spent all day Saturday working this and I was going to make the call myself but after sleeping on it I decided that this really requires a decision from the TSC, not from the PM. I am going to hold off on balloting until I have received clear guidance. The primary membership criteria for most Subcommittees were established with an overly broad, “If you want to be a member, just add your name to the wiki” model. The result of this is basically unmanageable and has introduced a grey area that calls into question both the definition and validity of membership. In the crush to get ONAP off the ground this resulted in a flood of people adding themselves and then failing to participate. The membership lists have never been curated as far as I am aware, so there are a lot of "members" that have never been active. I have not yet looked into Security, Open Lab or University yet and Control-Loop isn't due for another couple months. However, for the "big three" here is the situation… Architecture Subcommittee: 108 members listed, 70 are actually subscribed to the Onap-arc mailing list Use case Subcommittee: 98 members listed, 49 are actually subscribed to the Onap-usecasesub mailing list Modeling Subcommittee: 84 members listed. It does not have its own mailing list and instead uses onap-discuss. Out of the 35 company representatives (as per section 4.4.1.4 of the Community Document), 9 of them are not subscribed to the mailing list. A few of these deltas can be attributed to the fact people did not provide the same email address on the wiki page that they used to subscribe to the list. It is the member's responsibility to reconcile that, but it represents only a small percentage of the cases. This raises the issue as to whether someone can legitimately be considered of a subcommittee "member" if they are not even subscribed to the subcommittee's mailing list? My perspective is that they should not be. They may be an interested party, but since they are not able to participate in list-based discussion and they are not in a position to make decisions relative to the subcommittee. As defined in 4.4.1.3 Subcommittee Chair / Vice Chair Elections : The Chair or Vice-Chair will be elected by members of the subcommittee as of the date the nomination process starts for the election. Section 4.4.1.4 Subcommittee Voter Eligibility the criteria only defines: Voting for a Chair or Vice-Chair is not limited to ONAP member companies. However only 1 Subcommittee member from each company, or group of related companies may vote in the election. Based on the Community Document ballots should be sent to anyone listed on the wiki regardless of their actual involvement. Doing that makes me uncomfortable as it runs counter to promoting a vibrant community. Instead implies that we are basically apathetic in that regard. So, my questions to the TSC Members are: Should subcommittee election ballots only be distributed to individuals that are subscribed to the subcommittee's mailing list? Should subcommittee members that are not subscribed to the subcommittee's mailing list be dropped from the roster? (Assuming yes to the above) What is a reasonable period of time to allow subcommittee members to correct their information before proceeding? I will add this topic to the TSC meeting agenda, however discussions should take place here in advance. Thanks! Best Regards, -kenny Kenny Paul, Technical Program Manager, The Linux Foundation kp...@linuxfoundation.org, 510.766.5945 San Francisco Bay Area, Pacific Time Zone This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement, you may review at https://www.amdocs.com/about/email-disclaimer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#3638): https://lists.onap.org/g/ONAP-TSC/message/3638 Mute This Topic: https://lists.onap.org/mt/24966937/21656 Group Owner: onap-tsc+ow...@lists.onap.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.onap.org/g/ONAP-TSC/leave/2743226/1412191262/xyzzy [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
