On Jun 27, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > None of what's done at Kenai or Collabnet has any bearing > on how the Apache CMS works. Did you know it's compatible > with httpd's content negotiation features, so you can serve > up custom pages for each language?
What structure is needed in a CMS generated website to take advantage of multiple languages? Thanks, Dave > > > >> >> From: Alexandro Colorado <j...@openoffice.org> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Cc: Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 6:12:07 PM >> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <j...@openoffice.org> >>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> >>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <j...@openoffice.org> >>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer < >>>>> joe_schae...@yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <j...@openoffice.org> >>>>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf < >>>>>>>> d...@daniel.shahaf.name >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic >>>>>>>> server, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg >>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/ >>>>>>>>>>>> uses them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take >>>>> advantage >>>>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't >>>>> get >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. >>>>> So >>>>>>>> no, >>>>>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at >>>>> www.apache.orgwhich >>>>>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a >>>>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with >>>>>>>> Subversion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. >>>>> That's >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support >>>>> center >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on >>>>> disk. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have >>>>> missed >>>>>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with >>>>> Collbanet >>>>>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform. >>>>>> >>>>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is >>>>> you. >>>>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can >>>>>> demonstrate >>>>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled >>>>> with >>>>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a >>>>> jail/virtual os >>>>>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to >>>>> make >>>>>> proper >>>>>> use of the CMS. >>>>> >>>>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we >>>>> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of >>>>> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and >>>>> implementation. >>>>> >>>>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if >>>>> only slightly? >>>>> >>>>> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo >>>>> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo > to >>>>> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we > aren't >>>>> discussing mirrors so much. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in >>>> LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted >>>> longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary >>>> scenario. >>> >>> Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking >>> about the same topic. >>> >>>> >>>> Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus >>>> and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from >>>> news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the >>>> site is a pain in the butt. >>> >>> Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext >>> > > Right the issue becomes what happens when I need a localized menu and who has > access to that chunk of data? > > Kenai and Collabnet both worked the same way, they had multiple chunks of > HTML > that could be modular, except the access was restricted and dialog was slow. > So > we never got arround the localization issue. > > > If you look at http://es.openoffice.org you will see that is heavily modified > and a lot of CSS-display: none was used so we could use what we needed. > Obviously all this are hacks and what it shouldt be. Ideally we would have > our > own HTML chunk that we can modify as needed. Hopefully easier like a YAML > structure. > > > >>> Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or >>> Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did >>> intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have >>> been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP. >>> I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in >>> python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code >>> everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site dynamically >>> on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that >>> sync with the server everynight. >> >> You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build in >> the >> CMS. >> >> >>> The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could >>> become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating >>> changes from other people everynight. >> >> Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron >> disappears >> then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real PITA. >> >> A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project >> account on people to handle this. >> >> ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically > occur. >> >> Regards, >> Dave >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many >>>> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social >>>> network. >>>> >>>> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the >>>> frustrations that you had with Collabnet? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Alexandro Colorado* >>> *OpenOffice.org* Español >>> http://es.openoffice.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alexandro Colorado >> OpenOffice.org Español >> http://es.openoffice.org >> >>
