On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:44:03 +0100, Rene Herman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Timothy Miller wrote:
>
> > I forgot about that, and you're right. I guess we'll be doing 2.0.
> >
> > Will an AGP 2.0 board work in a 3.0 slot?
>
> As far as I'm aware, generally yes. The nomenclature becomes somewhat
> doizzying though, especially with "universal" cards thrown in. There is
> what seems to be a useful "AGP Compatibility Chart" on page 3 of:
>
> http://www.xfxforce.com/articles/pdf/agp%203%20article.pdf
>
> From that, a "Universal AGP 2.0" looks about right. A universal 3.0
> card would get you 8x but seems to consist of somewhat of a "combined"
> 2.0 and 2.0 card, that you have to choose modes on.
Doing AGP 4x in an FPGA is pushing it anyhow, if it's even possible.
We may discover in the end that 2x is as fast as we can make it go.
PCI-Express will most likely require an external chip, and therefore
make the board cost more.
>
> >> Moreover, I'm going to have a go again at convincing you that a
> >> version with a regular old VGA connector is worth it.
> >
> >
> > I don't see why an extra connector is needed when there will be an
> > adaptor from the DVI-I port to VGA. The adaptor isn't going to
> > impact signal quality.
>
> If you promise, I will stop trying to convince you... :-)
I promise that we'll do our absolute best. I certainly won't let the
thing go out the door with crap video quality.
> >> Another, overlapping, part of the market is obviously open source
> >> enthousiasts, probably runing Linux. A panel only has a _chance_ of
> >> looking good in its native resolution meaning that a plain VGA console
> >> is not something you want to display on them.
> >
> >
> > By "plain VGA", do you mean the port or the resolution? The VGA
> > resolution is only useful for boot (or pre-boot if you're using
> > fbconsole). The port is part of DVI-I.
>
> The resolution, and I beg to differ. Granted, I _usually_ start X but by
> no means always. Certainly not when I'm testing kernel-level stuff and
> just want a quick boot to verify something. In those cases, I just boot
> up in the 80x25 VGA console my BIOS sets up and linux doesn't change.
>
> Framebuffer I do not use at all. The couple of times I've tried it I've
> spent more time trying to figure out which parts of it were broken ("is
> it just me, is it the documentation, do I need newer userspace tools, is
> it a plain bug?") then doing anything even semi-useful.
It's a pain. I've gotten it to work, though, on two Radeons.
Hopefully we'll make it even easier with this card, in part because
you don't have to thunk to the BIOS to reinitialize, change modes,
etc.
> > We need one single version of the board that meets as many different
> > needs as possible. This is the ONLY way keep the cost down to something
> > reasonable. Volume is everything.
>
> Sounds like a very valid argument. If you promise the adapter's not some
> bulky contraption that I'll have to tie-wrap to the back of my computer
> with the electrons leaking out the sides... then I'm okay.
I have this little thing here that screws onto the DVI port and stays
secure. You can screw the VGA connector onto it. It's roughly 3cm x
3cm x 1cm. I'm sure what we provide won't be identical, but it'll be
very similar.
> Consolidating the thread:
>
> > BTW, I don't want you to think that your particular needs aren't
> > important. I'm sure there are a good number of people in the same
> > position as you are. It's just that we, as a project, cannot afford
> > to do anything that would either increase cost or limit the market.
> > Therefore, some people will get a solution which is slightly less
> > convenient than they want. That's what you get when you make
> > compromises.
>
> Do not worry about it. I'm just stating what I want here, you are the
> one that gets to decide on what you think still makes sense. Hey, we got
> you to change your mind on the TV-Out thing... why not try for another
> feature I wanted :-)
Well, everyone needs to state their opinion, else we won't know what
the opinions are. Unfortunately, when you average them all out, some
people don't get quite what they want. :)
It's not like we MUST have a 1/2 height card, but there are advantages
to it, cost being one of them.
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