Hey Matt, I really appreciate the discussion, I don't take anything personally and encourage you to be as tough as possible - after all that's the only way to get to truth. Like you, I'm not sure where exactly I stand either, so with that said:
More devil's advocate ... ;-) Where's the Angel in all this! If the syntax and how you used Hibernate was the same as Java, then sure, > good point. But that isn't the way it works. I remember a while back reading something about potential integration with existing Hibernate systems, but I could be wrong, and will need to do some homework before pursuing this point further. Seems doable though! And that's a good thing? Vince's point earlier was a good one--Hibernate is > the be-all end-all ORM solution for Java developers. Is that what we want or > need in CFML? Perhaps not, but then how are they going to be compatible? The big hairy difficult pieces that involve caching, synchronization, optimization and when the framework interacts with the db, all need to be perfectly identical otherwise things will simply behave differently and not as intended. What data is available when and where is very delicate to an app. The way I see it, even if OpenBD did choose to implement Hibernate, it would still be a fantastic feat to have it perfectly compatible with ACF - imagine without. But again, we aren't necessarily talking about reinventing Hibernate. Fair enough, so what about Transfer? It's certainly not Hibernate, but very non-trivial in itself. Mark has optimized it, re-worked it, developed a custom caching layer, etc. - and it's taken many years and thousands of developers reporting usage and problems. Whatever OpenBD comes up with needs to be at least as good - right? Maybe OpenBD's niche could be to provide the system of plugging in an ORM rather than develop the ORM. There would be a defined API and a way to gather all the config data from the CFC's, but it would then be up to a 3rd party ORM provider to make it all work. Apps would still be dependent on the underlying ORM that was chosen, since (as I've been saying) it is too complicated for them to be perfectly cross-compatible - but at least syntax and configuration would be consistent and easy to learn between them. We'd start with a Transfer mod, then Reactor, then eventually an independent project would arise that aims to do it with Hibernate and make it compatible with ACF. Cheers, Baz -- Open BlueDragon Public Mailing List http://www.openbluedragon.org/ http://twitter.com/OpenBlueDragon mailing list - http://groups.google.com/group/openbd?hl=en !! save a network - please trim replies before posting !!
