Actually Jag, is not far from the truth.
When you order a lab test you actually need an Instruction to define the lab test, and an action to put It into the ordered state. The request time of the lab test order is the time in the action with the ordered state. An instruction without an action is not yet executing within a workflow. BTW, the workflow definition attribute is not intended to carry archetyped data. It is intended to specify the definition of a workflow executing within a workflow engine or similar. The workflow ID references the instance of the workflow executing for this instruction. We also use this for real world non-computerised workflows, such as a lab order number to allow us to keep track all the entries that relate to the same lab request including observations and evaluation. Heath From: openehr-clinical-boun...@openehr.org [mailto:openehr-clinical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of pablo pazos Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2011 8:43 AM To: openehr clinical Subject: RE: Revision of Instructions - clinical implications But we are talking about the openEHR model, so we should consider the semantics of the terms we use based on those semantics instead of redefine them on every discussion. That's what a standard is for: defining a common language so we have no misunderstandings for differences on interpretation (= avoid ambig?ity). The states you mention are modeled by the openEHR model already. There are 3 different concepts: the initial instruction, the actions made for that instruction, and the current execution state for that instruction, determined by the actions taken. The record of those 3 different elements should be done separately, because you want to have the execution history of the instruction, not only the current state. The execution history is recorded in the actions taken. This is needed for audit trail, for medico-legal reasons, and to detect problems on the care process. I think storing all the information in one class doesn't solve the problem and leaves out the historical information. -- Kind regards, Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos _____ Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:18:54 +0000 From: sjagannat...@btinternet.com Subject: RE: Revision of Instructions - clinical implications To: openehr-clinical at openehr.org Not an expert on' openEHR semantics' But in simple terms it is still a matter of something + an attribute( in this case the tense) ie Procedure+ordered/instructed + done, + not done + proposed + postponed + suggested etc I wasn't trying to change any open ehr rules, but was just looking at it from a straightforward, logical and simplistic view to try and avoid ambiguity, confusion and duplication. Cheers Jag Dr. S Jagannathan --- On Sat, 10/12/11, pablo pazos <pazospablo at hotmail.com> wrote: From: pablo pazos <pazospa...@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Revision of Instructions - clinical implications To: "openehr clinical" <openehr-clinical at openehr.org> Date: Saturday, 10 December, 2011, 21:51 Those are not the semantics used in openEHR: http://www.openehr.org/releases/1.0.2/architecture/rm/ehr_im.pdf In the openEHR RM the ACTION is the record of something done: a procedure, a study, etc. An INSTRUCTION is the record of the order of that procedure or study. -- Kind regards, Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos _____ Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:02:57 +0000 From: sjagannat...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: Revision of Instructions - clinical implications To: openehr-clinical at openehr.org When you instruct someone do to something then it is an action. Jag --- On Sat, 10/12/11, Thomas Beale <thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com> wrote: From: Thomas Beale <thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com> Subject: Re: Revision of Instructions - clinical implications To: openehr-clinical at openehr.org Date: Saturday, 10 December, 2011, 16:49 Instruction defines what Activities should be performed. Actions record the execution of those activities, which might not be exactly the same as what was ordained. So Instruction = intended; Action = actual. - thomas On 10/12/2011 16:00, S JAGANNATHAN wrote: > Isn't 'Instruction' itself an action? > > Jag _______________________________________________ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical _______________________________________________ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical at openehr.org <http://mc/compose?to=openEHR-clinical%40openehr.org> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical _______________________________________________ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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