On 9 December 2013 16:10, Scott Palmer <swpal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 8, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > <snip> > > > > Firstly, it will *never* be possible to completely emulate the native > look > > and feel. > > Sure it is. Though it may never be practical, for many of the reasons you > have given. > > > My reasoning is: why bother? > > Because it matters. As computer literate developers, we often don't > realize what trips other people up. I get so frustrated with apps these > days because they have become hard to use simply because the developers > tried to define their own look and feel. For example, Chrome and > Firefox... Or Microsoft Office... > Where did the title bar go in chrome? > Where have all the menus gone in Chrome, Firefox andOffice? I can find > them, but when I have to play tech support over the phone to my parents > these changes are massive problems. I ask my dad to move he window by > dragging the title bar (please don't ask why he doesn't know to do this > himself after decades of computer use) and he says "there is no title > bar"... I the remember that yes, chrome did that... They got rid of a > standard concept in the OS' windowing system and screed the end users. > > These apps became harder to use because of this "innovation" in the UI. > > Contrast this with applications on OS X where getting the UI right has > always been an important priority for developers. Because adhering to the > system look and feel has always been strongly encouraged the system is much > easier to use. > > > These days, many apps do not look 100% native and may have their own > > controls or look and feel in general. > > Yes, but to what end? They are now more difficult to use. > > > Why not channel all that massive > > effort in constructing an emulated native look and feel into simply > making > > JavaFX better overall? > > But I agree here. The general look isn't the main issue.. E.g. little > variations in color and minor tweaks to a few pixels here and there don't > really matter. What does matter is when you change the order of buttons, > like Okay & Cancel which have standard places that are different between > Mac and Windows, or you move the About menu item from the Application menu > on an OS X app to the help menu! because that is where you find it on > Windows. Those things matter. > > > Scott > > > > > Felix > > > > > > > > On 9 December 2013 12:35, Pedro Duque Vieira < > pedro.duquevie...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > >> Thanks! > >> > >> @Jasper: Yes, that's very interesting! Forgot that was possible to do in > >> CSS. > >> > >> > >>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Stephen Winnall <st...@winnall.ch> > wrote: > >>> > >>> It may be possible to change the LOOK with CSS, but not the FEEL, which > >> is > >>> where Java apps have traditionally failed big time. > >>> > >>> Some things that I don’t think can be changed with CSS: > >>> > >>> 1) texts > >>> 2) order of buttons > >>> 3) escape characters for shortcuts > >>> 4) menus > >>> 5) system-level stuff (double-clicking on files, dropping files on > >>> applications, …) > >>> 6) filesystem conventions > >>> 7) ... > >>> > >>> I think FXML can fix some of these, but not all. So it seems to me > that a > >>> LaF in JFX will consist of at least: > >>> > >>> - one or more CSS files > >>> - one or more FXML files > >>> - some plumbing at the system level > >>> > >>> It would be nice to have a set of proper LaFs for each major platform > >> with > >>> an appropriate common API. > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> > >>>> On 9 Dec 2013, at 00:20, Jasper Potts <jasper.po...@oracle.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> You can set skin classes from CSS so should be able to do everything > >> you > >>> could with Swing and more. With just a CSS file and skins as and when > >>> needed. > >>>> > >>>> Jasper > >>>> > >>>>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jonathan Giles < > jonathan.gi...@oracle.com > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> At present there are no plans to introduce any further API or > >>>>> functionality in this area, but if there is something you are wanting > >>>>> then you should file feature requests in Jira. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Jonathan > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:54 a.m., Pedro Duque Vieira wrote: > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Is there any Look and Feel mechanism in place, like the one in > Swing? > >>> That > >>>>>> doesn't appear to exist.. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Are there any plans to add one? You can only do so much with CSS... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks in advance, best regards, > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Pedro Duque Vieira > >> >
