Thanks Marko for the review, we will consider some of the proposals for the next version
Sebastian 2012/9/4 Marko Bijelic <[email protected]>: > Hi Alexei, Sebastian, Maxim and the rest of team, > > Here is my one 1h usability review. > > Installation > The installation itself was very weird and difficult. First I wasn't > sure weather to download "binaries" file or "source". Source wasn't > the right one apparently. > > After that, I barely saw the small text beneath the install > instructions online, and had to manually re-type the address for the > web installer. > red5.bat reported no "Java_home" set-up but I managed to start the > installation. > > I don't expect regular installation and just bunch of "next" buttons, > but it would be great to make better instructions. > > This is view from someone who is not familiar with open source and > Apache like way of downloading and installing software. It works, but > it's weird for people that are not part of open source world. > > First point: making download page and installation process more user > friendly, it will increase the numbers of downloads. > > > Form > Register form is massive. Maybe just use really necesary information, > and later on users can input needed information if they want to use > certain options. > > Second point: the rule is, the less input fields you have, more people > will submit the form. If you reduce the number of fields, you would > increase the number of registered users. > > Size > Overall, the size could take less space in the browser. Users with > bigger screens (over 22") will have a massive white space, making > options and functions look a bit tiny. > > So, application has to take a certain amount of the screen, OR you > could localize all options and controls to be just a bit closer > together. > > Video > Webcam video holder should not have randomly generated position. Maybe > a spacial section on the right side or in place of the > player's avatar? > Also, a nice option would be to have a central place for the speakers > webcam. For example, when a user speaks, > a video holder appears above the properties and chat, at the middle of > the screen. And when a software detects another mic/user > active, it switches the video to that users webcam. > > Global Selection > Users should be able to select multiple objects and delete them or move them. > https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40227395/JBRS/FEDO/Globalselection.jpg > > Properties > When users needs to change font color, or line color...he has to go > all the way down almost to the bottom of the screen. > Therefore, properties panel needs to be next to tools panel. > > Design > Of course, design can be much much better. I am guessing this is a > template or it just uses pre-defined elements. > > > Overall everything works nice. Only placement and some extra options > are required to give it a nice flow. > > > Best Regards, > Marko Bijelic > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Alexei Fedotov > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language labels, rooms etc. >> >> Maybe we should use java management API and embed the existing >> management console? >> Maybe we should ship admin as a separate release bundle? Splitting >> will help re-using other technologies. >> Maybe we should ask designer guys on look & feel concept, and apply it >> to our product? >> >> -- >> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >> http://dataved.ru/ >> +7 916 562 8095 >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Alexei Fedotov >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I do not stop people from volunteering. My thanks to Maxim for 1) >>> proactivity; 2) good technology choice. >>> >>> I missed few items, Maxim told the first one is somewhere in the thread. >>> 1. Why not to recompile OpenLaszlo to DHTML? >>> 2. What is the plan and is it actually doable? What is time estimate? >>> >>> My friend who worked for our competior told me that they have >>> re-written design four times during the last for years. We don't have >>> resources for this. So my suggestion would be the following: >>> 1. Find Openmeetings usability problems or most wanted features. Maybe >>> Marco can help. >>> 2. Develop that using new technology, making minor adjustments to >>> already working things. >>> >>> So main concerns >>> 1. It make little sense copying existing workflow. It adds value to >>> improve the workflow. >>> 2. We need to add value to the product on any step. That makes us >>> user-oriented, not technology oriented. >>> >>> How good wicket is with jquery? It does not seem to work with jquery >>> out of the box. >>> >>> -- >>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >>> http://dataved.ru/ >>> +7 916 562 8095 >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM, [email protected] >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> What are your alternatives? >>>> There are already people volunteering to start contributing to it. >>>> It can be realized without breaking functionality, we still have the >>>> Flash interface available while we build DHTML. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Sebastian >>>> >>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>: >>>>> Guys, please do not rush, let me think a bit. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >>>>> http://dataved.ru/ >>>>> +7 916 562 8095 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM, [email protected] >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Ok >>>>>> >>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> I prefer develop in trunk. I would vote for this >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012 3:49 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That sounds good. >>>>>>>> Do you want to create a new branch for the DHTML tree >>>>>>>> or will trunk become the DHTML tree and we create a 2.1 branch ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> > We need to add following lines to our ivy.xml: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > <dependency org="org.apache.wicket" >>>>>>>> > name="wicket-core" >>>>>>>> > rev="6.0.0-beta3" conf="openmeetings->*"/> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > and that is all >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I can create "sample Om main page" and them both of as can add >>>>>>>> components to it. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, [email protected] >>>>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> Wickets standard project setup require Maven. What is your proposal >>>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>>> >> integrate Wicket into the current stack? >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>> I don't really understand why do we need maven? >>>>>>>> >>> Why ant+ivy is not enough? >>>>>>>> >>> I always thought it is similar tools. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> Could you please explain it? >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM, [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>> Well lets give it a try with Wicket. >>>>>>>> >>>> However when it comes to the real collaboration and UI effects I >>>>>>>> >>>> think >>>>>>>> >>>> we will heavily use jQuery. >>>>>>>> >>>> We will first have to integrate our application in a Maven styled >>>>>>>> project. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> I guess we can still use ANT to compile certain aspect of our >>>>>>>> >>>> application, Maven can trigger ANT build scripts. >>>>>>>> >>>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/ >>>>>>>> >>>> seems to be a perfect tool for us. >>>>>>>> >>>> However some of the Ivy dependency management might be difficult >>>>>>>> >>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>> set up. Lets try that out. >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>> Hello Sebastian, >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> sorry for the late reply (was out of city with no internet >>>>>>>> >>>>> access) >>>>>>>> >>>>> While proposing using Apache Wicket I thought of following: >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language labels, rooms >>>>>>>> >>>>> etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>> 2) Use of Ajax to refresh only parts of page displayed. >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> We definitely can use JS libraries (like jQuery UI) only but this >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> >>>>> make code less readable. I believe Apache Wicket will be good for >>>>>>>> >>>>> Admin menu etc. And we can easily add jQuery UI to it. >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> Instead of Wicket we can use Spring MVC and Velocity. >>>>>>>> >>>>> I have proposed Wicket only because I have more experience with >>>>>>>> >>>>> it >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>> from my point of view it is easy to maintain. >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:23 AM, [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> After some discussion I would like to propose to integrate >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Apache >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Wicket and try it out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>> I have update the document: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Please add your notes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would be my proposal: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What if we instead of Apache Wicket use Apache Velocity to >>>>>>>> provide the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> basic structure of the HTML websites? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All dynamically loaded data, rendering of items could be then >>>>>>>> done by jQuery. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That way we will have a set of html templates to work on and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a UI >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> framework to manipulate it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to share this use-case >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the next iteration I would like to put the Chat box as a >>>>>>>> permanent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> box similar to what is in Google+ and Facebook on the bottom. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That mean no matter where you go, admin section, room list, >>>>>>>> dashboard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> => the chat always stays the same, so a complete page >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> refresh is >>>>>>>> not possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would simply replace the DIV that contains the main content >>>>>>>> with new >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> one when switching between main menu entries. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What do you think about that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How would that affect the framework discussion? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When it comes to rendering and UI component frameworks you >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> projects like: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simple search for "Apache Wicket UI samples" and you find >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> tons >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jQuery examples that are used in Apache Wicket. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So from my point of view Apache Wicket is simply no UI >>>>>>>> framework. It >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> is a web-framework. How things render is not part of it. >>>>>>>> Practically >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it might mean that we could combine Apache Wicket with >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jQuery >>>>>>>> too. But >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> why use Apache Wicket then at all? We have already a backend >>>>>>>> with Rest >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Services and everything. Wicket would duplicate that. What >>>>>>>> parts of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wicket would we really use? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you show examples of Apache Wicket UI widgets and >>>>>>>> animation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend to review Apache Wicket. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is MVC it has lots of UI components like paged lists >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> table >>>>>>>> views etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It had built-in AJAX support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In general I'll vote for moving to DHTML >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2012 3:57 PM, "[email protected]" < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start a discussion about options to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> migrate >>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Roadmap for the upcomfing versions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is our current situation: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have two client side application a) + b) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a) Audio/Video related stuff is all the SWF10 app >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b) whiteboard, administration + all the rest in the SWF8 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> app. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The two SWFs communicate via LocalConnection with each >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> other. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three options from my point of view: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) refactor the SWF8 app to SWF11 and keep the >>>>>>>> LocalConnection >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) refactor the SWF8 and merge SWF8 with SWF10 app to a >>>>>>>> single SWF11 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> app and get rid of the LocalConnection workaround >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) refactor the SWF8 app to HTML5 and only use SWF for >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> audio/video >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> part. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 1 is the easiest thing to do >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 2 is the best from architecture point of view >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 3 is the best for moving to HTML5 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view it would be the best option to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> start >>>>>>>> DHTML >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> refactoring now (in a version 3.0 branch) and release the >>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> trunk tree (as version 2.1). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the transition to DHTML we have several options: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I) Refactor to DHTML using OpenLaszlo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> II) Refactor to DHTML using a JavaScript framework >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (jQuery, >>>>>>>> Dojo, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Wicket, Spring+MVC) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal preference is using jQuery. It provides >>>>>>>> components for UI >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and animation and is the most widespread. From a project >>>>>>>> point of view >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be more easy to attract new developers if they >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> use tools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are comfortable in. And I really don't want to >>>>>>>> code a client >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> side application that requires heavy usage of the >>>>>>>> page-refresh. That >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would be like moving back in time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some architectural questions that we should >>>>>>>> discuss for the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript refactoring. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> However there should be some kind of consens on the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> overall >>>>>>>> RoadMap first. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>> WBR >>>>>>>> >>>>> Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>>> >>> WBR >>>>>>>> >>> Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>>> >> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> >> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> >> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> >> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>> > WBR >>>>>>>> > Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>> [email protected] -- Sebastian Wagner https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock http://www.webbase-design.de http://www.wagner-sebastian.com [email protected]
