For my part I apologise for the digression -- I clearly did not intend for it to be unproductive.
Maybe one day I'll learn to keep my mouth shut! :) Bad mouth! Cheers, On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Teravus Ovares <tera...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just a FYI, after talking with Ryan further, I did mis-interpret his > statement as sarcastic when he didn't mean it that way. So with > that, I'm sorry for taking up your time reading this. This will > hopefully be the last e-mail on this thread. > > Regards > > Teravus > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:04 AM, Teravus Ovares <tera...@gmail.com> wrote: >> My message was in response to your sarcastic comment, >> "Thanks for all the information -- it makes one feel in the loop an >> having a voice." >> >> My point was that you're calling us on keeping people out of the loop >> when you don't also keep people in the loop. I've been a part of the >> dev mailing list for some time now. The dev list hasn't been asked to >> vote on the people who have commit on the realXtend server. >> >> A fork in git is an action that allows you to keep your own copy that >> you distribute. Where you get your copy from is really irrelevant in >> a distributed source control management system. The point is.. you >> manage what goes in to your copy and what doesn't. This establishes >> that you have control over that 'fork'. Once again, you can't >> claim that you don't have control over Taiga. You can choose to >> merge or not. You can even knit pick specific commits. >> >> "Also, since we have no reX-specific modification, it's more like an >> svn:external" >> Does that mean that you're no longer using Ogre mesh in the realXtend Server? >> >>>No, we use a web of trust system, ie. each current contributor gets to >>> decide on their own who gets commit access to SVN -- if we used git >>> even that distinction would become meaningless. >> >> We accept patches the same way. The patches are reviewed by a core >> member, and committed as is appropriate. >> For example: here's a recent patch by Snowcrash that was committed by dahlia: >> http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=182693628ca1b81c90f3f0296418437eda406bb5 >> >> >>> I think this is a case of not understanding what I'm talking about. >>> It's also not the first time you've done that to attack me publicly >>> even though you have my IM. >> >> I'm not attacking you publicly. I'm simply saying that I don't think >> it's fair for you to call OpenSimulator core on 'keeping people out of >> the loop' when you're not 100% 'community inclusive'. Come back and >> make that claim when you are. >> >> >>> You seem to have profoundly misunderstood my words yet again. I'm not >>> sure where you get "negative" from... >> It's possible. However, when I receive advice like >> >>>In that case, unless core is comprised of lawyers, or confidential >>>legal advice is being directly quoted, it might be healthier to >>>discuss in public -- at least so it's readable by those who have a >>>stake in the community. >> >>>Every community/OSS book that mentions private lists for limited use, >>>in the next breath cautions against over-use. >> >> in an e-mail thread where you exclaim >> >> " >> Fourthly, the email is not just about one mailing list, it's about the >> entire concept of a monolithic core in open source, especially given >> we're on a DVCS like git. If core is not interested in examining >> itself as it grows, then so be it. >> " >> >> Is it any wonder that I interpret the next statement, "Thanks for all >> the information -- it makes one feel in the loop an >> having a voice.", sarcastically? >> >> Regards >> >> Teravus >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:29 AM, Ryan McDougall <sempu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Teravus Ovares <tera...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> You seem to have some negative feelings about us. You have your own >>> >>> You seem to have profoundly misunderstood my words yet again. I'm not >>> sure where you get "negative" from... >>> >>>> fork though that you manage.. called Taiga. Are you saying that >>> >>> Taiga is comprised of OpenSim (although we now track JHurliman's >>> branch of ScienceSim), cable beach, and ModreX. >>> >>> Given JHurliman's branch of opensim is a temporary git branch, calling >>> it a fork is quite a stretch. In fact it's quite my point that "fork" >>> is meaningless with DVCS. >>> >>> Also, since we have no reX-specific modification, it's more like an >>> svn:external. >>> >>>> you involve the community for all decisions about Taiga including who >>>> gets commit rights? I seriously doubt it. >>> >>> No, we use a web of trust system, ie. each current contributor gets to >>> decide on their own who gets commit access to SVN -- if we used git >>> even that distinction would become meaningless. >>> >>> Ie, if you want commit access -- let me know, I'll set you up asap. >>> >>>> This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. >>> >>> I think this is a case of not understanding what I'm talking about. >>> It's also not the first time you've done that to attack me publicly >>> even though you have my IM. >>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Teravus >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Ryan McDougall <sempu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Dr Scofield <drscofi...@xyzzyxyzzy.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ryan McDougall wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Frisby, Adam <a...@deepthink.com.au> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I disagree. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Commit Rights - those discussions cannot occur in public (although >>>>>>>> the discussion archives are open to committers after being invited), >>>>>>>> the reason for this is no-one can be frank & honest without hurting >>>>>>>> people's feelings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Firstly, I did waive discussion for commit access. I also waive money >>>>>>> and legal matters. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Secondly, I disagree with the logic of the link, as it's premised >>>>>>> entirely on being honest might hurt someone's feelings. Honesty is not >>>>>>> a function of secrecy. >>>>>> >>>>>> i think honesty can be a facilitated by a discussion remaining >>>>>> confidential. >>>>>> >>>>>>> And the case of "there was a long drawn out >>>>>>> discussion about me in which I was not able to represent my myself" >>>>>>> causing hurt feelings is not considered. >>>>>> >>>>>> i can see that point, but i can also see the points made by adam >>>>>> respectively >>>>>> the points made in the F/OSS guidebook --- in balance (my personal one) >>>>>> i'd >>>>>> rather have core committers discuss whether i should have voting rights >>>>>> in private. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thirdly, I don't think snowcrash thing is about giving him commit >>>>>>> access. I don't think things are as neatly compartmentalized as is >>>>>>> told (though I could be wrong, it's hard to guess from a secret >>>>>>> mailing list). >>>>>> >>>>>> no, you are right on that one. it's a discussion about our understanding >>>>>> of >>>>>> licensing issues and whether there is indeed an issue here or not. >>>>> >>>>> In that case, unless core is comprised of lawyers, or confidential >>>>> legal advice is being directly quoted, it might be healthier to >>>>> discuss in public -- at least so it's readable by those who have a >>>>> stake in the community. >>>>> >>>>> Every community/OSS book that mentions private lists for limited use, >>>>> in the next breath cautions against over-use. >>>>> >>>>>> re compartmentalized: they are, at least we try very hard to. >>>>>> >>>>>> DrS >>>>>> -- >>>>>> dr dirk husemann ---- virtual worlds research ---- ibm zurich research >>>>>> lab >>>>>> SL: dr scofield ---- drscofi...@xyzzyxyzzy.net ---- >>>>>> http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/ >>>>>> RL: h...@zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - >>>>>> http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/ >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for all the information -- it makes one feel in the loop an >>>>> having a voice. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev