Yes OpenSimulator can use all the help it can get. My messages were intended to help bring the MOSES contributions into core in a way that many can benefit, and to raise awareness of some caveats. I hope they weren't misinterpreted by those who are involved in contributing.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> wrote: > Accepted. But i am not concerned with my feelings, i am concerned with the > future of OS. > > We need help. I cant help, but others can - Intel, Moses, numerous groups > in Academia. Many would like to help, we just need to balance the pain of > breaking backwards compatibility with the benefits of funded research into > making OS better for all of us. > > Frank > > Sent from my iPad Air 2 > > On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:38 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[email protected]> > wrote: > > My apologies for upsetting you, Frank. Perhaps it was the use of the > phrase "academic dishonesty" which influenced my prior message. > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Jezz, seriously, this is how you expect to garner serious support from >> people that can advance OS beyond being a toy that a few people play with. >> >> >> On Apr 25, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> It is indeed unfortunate that questionable results may have been >> propagated. Please bear in mind that few, if any, developers of >> OpenSimulator have committed to producing a software which is intended for >> such purposes. There are likely many artifices in OpenSimulator and in 3D >> graphics applications in general. I would *strongly suggest* that those who >> attempt to use the software for such purposes take responsibility for >> understanding the applicability of this software for their purposes. >> >> I will also suggest that a review of the license for OpenSimulator might >> be in order, quoted here for your convenience: >> >> >> * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without >> * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are >> met: >> * * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright >> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. >> * * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above >> copyrightD >> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in >> the >> * documentation and/or other materials provided with the >> distribution. >> * * Neither the name of the OpenSimulator Project nor the >> * names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote >> products >> * derived from this software without specific prior written >> permission. >> * >> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY >> * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE >> IMPLIED >> * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE >> * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY >> * DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL >> DAMAGES >> * (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR >> SERVICES; >> * LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER >> CAUSED AND >> * ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR >> TORT >> * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE >> OF THIS >> * SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE." >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or >>> increasing functionality. I am not in support of the idea of introducing >>> multiplier variables into the ini file. This is for a number of reasons, >>> one being there are a large number of multiplier variables that could be >>> needed and the ini file is already complicated enough. Adding more >>> variables and code, rather than fixing bad code is not a responsible >>> solution. >>> >>> >>> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs. At some point in the >>> past, somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers and >>> now (years later), that mistake has caught up with us. The longer you >>> wait, the more painful the correction will be. It should be corrected, and >>> any monitoring tools updated. It is the responsible course of action. >>> >>> >>> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking >>> issues within the Open Simulator. Step Zero of this process is trusting >>> the simulator statistics. >>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>> Science and Technology Manager >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center >>> (c) (407) 242-0209 <%28407%29%20242-0209> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* [email protected] [ >>> [email protected]] on behalf of Michael Emory >>> Cerquoni [[email protected]] >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) >>> >>> What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable >>> in OpenSim.ini? This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance >>> and use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the >>> code in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and monitoring >>> tools to continue testing other code that may be pushed into core, >>> especially if the end goal is to get statistics to report back at the >>> original numbers? I am mostly just trying to understand the end goal >>> myself. If that is not possible I would suggest this work be moved into a >>> development branch until we can get statistics back to the normal numbers >>> again? Otherwise we are talking about locking the code down to all other >>> development until this process is complete, and no one has discussed any >>> kind of time frame for this level of changes to complete, I would hate to >>> put a complete halt to development in order for this to happen. I am not >>> against doing what you suggest, I just want to make sure we do it in the >>> most efficient way possible. Would be good to hear what others in the core >>> development have to say, hopefully Justin and Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, >>> BlueWall, you guys can chime in here as well, as I am only one person here >>> and for the record just voicing my own concerns, I am far from the final >>> say on any of this stuff. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) < >>> [email protected] >>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote: >>> >>>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance >>>> enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the >>>> simulator statistics. Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to >>>> make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is. >>>> This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist. >>>> >>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>>> Science and Technology Manager >>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate >>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center >>>> (c) (407) 242-0209 >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [ >>>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] on behalf of >>>> Melanie [[email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) >>>> >>>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and >>>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can >>>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats >>>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This >>>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do >>>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives. >>>> >>>> - Melanie >>>> >>>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote: >>>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just >>>> display >>>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be >>>> using >>>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the >>>> region, >>>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to >>>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the >>>> > project as a whole. >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni < >>>> > [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the >>>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later >>>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to >>>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps >>>> before >>>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do >>>> test this >>>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks! >>>> >> >>>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL >>>> (US) < >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >>>> >>> Caveats: NONE >>>> >>> >>>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch >>>> should >>>> >>> still >>>> >>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation >>>> guidance >>>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want >>>> this >>>> >>> done - >>>> >>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> v/r -douglas >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>>> >>> Science and Technology Manager >>>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC) >>>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209 >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>> From: [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of >>>> Michael Emory >>>> >>> Cerquoni >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM >>>> >>> To: [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted >>>> >>> >>>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for >>>> testing, >>>> >>> thanks >>>> >>> guys! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann < >>>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Opensim Devs >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission >>>> from >>>> >>> project >>>> >>> MOSES. Thanks. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> Michael Heilmann >>>> >>> Research Associate >>>> >>> Institute for Simulation and Training >>>> >>> University of Central Florida >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> >>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> <blockedhttp:// >>>> opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >>>> >>> Caveats: NONE >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> >>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > >
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