On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Shawn Walker wrote:
> On 31/10/2007, Chris Mahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 10/31/07, Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> That's my point. If you want to be able to prove *why* we shouldn't
>>> have a distribution called OpenSolaris you must demonstrate the harm
>>> it would cause as the benefit has already been demonstrated and talked
>>> about.
>>>
>>> Not to be offensive, but other than hurt feelings, I don't see the harm in
>> it.
>>>
>>
>> I agree with Joerg (for once--just kidding!) in that an official
>> "OpenSolaris" distribution will harm other OpenSolaris-based projects.
>> Here's why.
>>
>> As Ian Murdock eloquently states in the third paragraph in this very thread:
>> "... - one answer to that question is clear to
>> me: OpenSolaris MUST be something new users can download and install."
>>
>> This, of course, is meant to drive incoming eyeballs (new users) to the
>> obvious choice, the Official OpenSolaris distro. So the eyeball will,
>> instead of being puzzled by the myriad arrays of available distro, and
>> instead of reading the descriptions and reading about Nexenta's debian-like
>> packaging and ShilliX's Unix on USB, they will sheepfully click on the big
>> green Download OpenSolaris button. *
>>
>> And they will not go to the other distros.
>>
>> And since distros need people, new people, to thrive, the Official
>> OpenSolaris distro will be disproportionately advantaged in the draw of new
>> users compared to other distros, who will wither away.
>>
>> People's decisions will not be based on the technical merit of each distro,
>> after careful examination of the characteristics of each distro and based on
>> their need. Rather, they will become Victims of Marketing and be funneled
>> into OpenSolaris-that-was-Indiana.
>>
>> So, does it harm other distros? In the sense that they will be starved for
>> new users, definitely.
>
> By the same logic, Ubuntu never should have succeeded since there was
> nothing to drive people from the Debian or any other website to it.
>
> RedHat shouldn't have been able to rise to dominance and Slackware
> fall, and so forth.
>
> If one of the alternative distributions provides a truly better
> experience, users will naturally flock to it: "birds of a feather."
>
> The ability to use the OpenSolaris name is a privilege; not a right.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is absolutely correct. And, along with the ownership of that
trademark comes the responsibility of having to defend its use - even
in the face of a McBride/SCO type (never-ending) court challenge.
It's Suns trademark and they have the right to use it and mandate how
it can/should be used. But they are also prepared to pony up anything
from $100k to $1m+ to defend it.
If someone in the community says that this is unfair, then my first
question to them is: "are you prepared to spend $1m of your own money
to defend this valuable trademark"?
It's also unfair that Googles founders get to fly their 767 into a
private airfield in Mountain View CA - almost their own backyard -
while we have to endure getting stuck in commuter traffic! Life is
unfair - get over it.
But what makes this completely fair, is that we, as individuals, have
the ability to define our own trademark and our own OpenSolaris based
distribution and the ability to startup our own Google alternative.
> Yes the distribution with the name gets the most visibility, but if
> another one provides a better experience, people will choose it
> despite it's goofy name (e.g. see Ubuntu).
>
> The other thing here that is going unmentioned is that the
> distribution is not set in stone.
>
> There is absolutely nothing preventing another project being started
> on OpenSolaris.org called "Project Wonkers" and having it become the
> new official distribution.
>
> The community here has the power and ability to directly drive the
> contents of this distribution and instead I just see a bunch of
> bickering about how unfair everything is.
>
> Stop complaining and do something about it!
+1
> I've been watching OpenSolaris since it first launched and I've seen
> more progress and interest in OpenSolaris since Project Indiana was
> announced than ever.
+1
And I've been in favor of this project (after I recovered from the
initial shock of Ian Murdock being hired by Sun) - because it means
that people are putting money and talented developer manhours into
making OpenSolaris even better. We (as in the community) are getting
a new installer, a new packaging/distribution mechanism and an
improved patching mechanism - and thats just for starters. Who is
*not* in favor of that. How "unfair" is that!? Are you kidding -
this is *great* for OpenSolaris (the Project) and I don't care who
thinks its unfair that Sun owns the OpenSolaris trademark and wants to
associate some flavor of that name to describe a resulting
distribution which they have largely sponsored.
> I don't see hordes of people flocking to Nexenta despite the fact that
> it provided a better experience in many ways over a year ago.
>
> This isn't about anyone's pet project getting "top billing"; this is
> about growing up and meeting the needs of our users instead of
> bickering about who's feelings are going to be hurt.
+1
> Stop focusing on yourselves; focus on the users. We need to do what's
> best for the community, not our egos.
+1
Let's come up with a policy that we can live with and let Indiana move
forward. Let OpenSolaris move forward. I'm sorry that we all can't
own valuable trademarks and land our private 767s in our "back yard" -
but we can help make OpenSolaris (and its derivitives) the best OS on
the planet and we *will* have to make compromises and sacrefices to
make this happen.
Thanks Shawn for your honest, matter-of-fact discussion efforts.
Regards,
Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT
OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Apr 2005 to Mar 2007
http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/ogb_2005-2007/
Graduate from "sugar-coating school"? Sorry - I never attended! :)
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