On 10/02/17 15:48, Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2017-02-09 21:33:03 -0500: >> On 02/09/2017 02:19 PM, Hayes, Graham wrote: >> <snip> >> >>> Where too now then? >>> =================== >>> >>> Well, this is where I call out to people who actually use the project - >>> don't >>> jump ship and use something else because of the picture I have painted. >>> We are >>> a dedicated team, how cares about the project. We just need some help. >>> >>> I know there are large telcos who use Designate. I am sure there is tooling, >>> or docs build up in these companies that could be very useful to the >>> project. >>> >>> Nearly every commercial OpenStack distro has Designate. Some have had it >>> since >>> the beginning. Again, developers, docs, tooling, testers, anything and >>> everything is welcome. We don't need a massive amount of resources - we >>> are a >>> small ish, stable, project. >>> >>> We need developers with upstream time allocated, and the budget to go to >>> events >>> like the PTG - for cross project work, and internal designate road map, >>> these >>> events form the core of how we work. >>> >>> We also need help from cross project teams - the work done by them is >>> brilliant >>> but it can be hard for smaller projects to consume. We have had a lot of >>> progress since the `Leveller Playing Field`_ debate, but a lot of work is >>> still optimised for the larger teams who get direct support, or well >>> resourced >>> teams who can dedicate people to the implementation of plugins / code. >>> >>> As someone I was talking to recently said - AWS is not winning public cloud >>> because of commodity compute (that does help - a lot), but because of the >>> added services that make using the cloud, well, cloud like. OpenStack >>> needs to >>> decide that either it is just compute, or if it wants the eco-system. [5]_ >>> Designate is far from alone in this. >> >> <snip> >> >> Graham, thank you for the heartfelt post. I may not agree with all your >> points, but I know you're coming from the right place and truly want to >> see Designate (and OpenStack in general) succeed. >> >> Your point about smaller projects finding it more difficult to "consume" >> help from cross-project teams is an interesting one. When the big tent >> was being discussed, I remember the TC specifically discussing a change >> for cross-project team focus: moving from a "we do this work for you" >> role to a "we help you do this work for yourself" role. You're correct >> that the increase in OpenStack projects meant that the cross-project >> teams simply would not be able to continue to be a service to other >> teams. This was definitely predicted during the big tent discussions. >> >> If I had one piece of advice to give Designate, it would be to >> prioritize getting documentation (both installation as well as dev-ref >> and operational docs) in good shape. I know writing docs sucks, but docs >> are a springboard for users and contributors alike and can have a >> multiplying effect that's difficult to overstate. Getting those install >> and developer docs started would enable the cross-project docs team to >> guide Designate contributors in enhancing and cleaning up the docs and >> putting some polish on 'em. Your idea above that maybe some users >> already wrote some docs is a good one. Maybe reach out personally to >> those telcos and see if they can dig something up that can be the basis >> for upstream docs. >> >> Best, >> -jay >> > > Thank you for bringing this into the open, Graham. > > I think we have several projects that would benefit by transitioning > from relying solely on vendor contributions to building up the > deployer/user contributor base. That's a relatively new approach > for some parts of the OpenStack community, but it's common elsewhere > in open source projects. The shift is likely to mean some changes > in the way we organize ourselves, because it may not be reasonable > to assume user-contributors have large amounts of time to focus on > long review cycles, traveling to sprints, or the other intensive > activities that are part of our current routine. (That's not to say > the Designate team has introduced any of those issues, of course. > We need to be thinking about removing obstacles for contributors > across the entire community.)
Yes - definitely. We try to be good about review cycles (with the amount we get, it is not that difficult for us to be good about bug triage, and review triage), but I agree - how we work does make things difficult for user contributors to become key contributors to a project. Even for people who want to contribute as a hobby, the time and level of funding required is quite high. Thanks, Graham > Doug > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev