Interesting, now I like this thread more. Back to the original question "what does an OpenStack user look like?", I'd like to translate it as "what does a cloud user look like?". Unless we want to limit "OpenStack" as a software for VPS service. IMHO, the cloud user is developers, who can use the services provided by the cloud platform to fully automate their services/products. But unfortunately, we're still far away from that, especially given Zaqar's adoption is still low :(
On 14/10/17 08:21, Zane Bitter wrote: > Replying to myself here, to avoid singling anyone in particular out. I > want to rephrase the question, because people are overwhelmingly > either failing to understand or refusing to answer it in the way I > intended it. > > Most of the candidates are essentially saying that the answer is > 'everyone'. > > I'm glad that we have such a bunch of next-level geniuses running for > the TC that they are able to analyse the needs of all 7 billion people > and evaluate every decision they make against all of them in real > time. Me, I'm just an ordinary guy who can only hold a few things in > his head at once, so I just try to focus on those and collaborate with > people who have different perspectives to make sure that a range of > needs are covered. This is kind of the founding principle of the Open > Source (note: not Free Software) movement, actually. None of us is as > smart as all of us (present company excepted, apparently). So it's > good, but somewhat surprising that y'all are still here, given that > you would be guaranteed insta-billionaires if you went out and started > a proprietary software company. > > All sarcasm aside though, 'everyone' is a BS non-answer. It's the > politician's answer. > > Not only because engineering trade-offs are a real thing, and some use > cases will *definitely* be excluded in order to better serve others, > but because the average user doesn't exist. If you design for the > 'average' user then you are designing for nobody, because nobody is > the average user. We shouldn't be designing for 'everybody' (aka > nobody in particular), but for a large variety of somebodies. > > As an example, look at the Keystone discussion that I linked below. > - If you were designing Keystone for an individual user, you'd might > just have one account per tenant. > - If you were designing Keystone for a team deploying semi-autonomous > apps, you might design a way for multiple agents to authenticate to > each tenant. > - If you were designing Keystone for 'everyone', you might have a > matrix of users, tenants and roles - the most generic solution, right? > - and spend half a decade polishing it without ever realising that > individual users don't need it and teams can't use it. > > One of these solutions works for both individuals and teams. The other > two only work for individuals. As an added bonus, one of those is also > expensive to develop and hard to operate. That's why we should design > for someones, not for 'everyone'. This is not a problem limited to > Keystone - throughout OpenStack we often fail to develop solutions > that can actually be used by the people whom we say we're building > them for, IMHO. > > I'm not asking y'all to say that some group of end-users is > unimportant even though the question is trying to keep the bar > extremely low by asking about only one group. Nor am I asking y'all to > say that operators are unimportant, even though the question is > *explicitly* *NOT* about operators. > > I'm asking if you can describe, to a modest level of detail, even one > *end* user persona for OpenStack that you're familiar enough with to > be comfortable advocating for on the TC. > > So far the answer I'm hearing mostly translates as 'no'. (Props to the > folks who did actually answer though!) Does anybody want to try again? > > cheers, > Zane. > > On 12/10/17 12:51, Zane Bitter wrote: >> In my head, I have a mental picture of who I'm building OpenStack >> for. When I'm making design decisions I try to think about how it >> will affect these hypothetical near-future users. By 'users' here I >> mean end-users, the actual consumers of OpenStack APIs. What will it >> enable them to do? What will they have to work around? I think we >> probably all do this, at least subconsciously. (Free tip: try doing >> it consciously.) >> >> So my question to the TC candidates (and incumbent TC members, or >> anyone else, if they want to answer) is: what does the hypothetical >> OpenStack user that is top-of-mind in your head look like? Who are >> _you_ building OpenStack for? >> >> There's a description of mine in this email, as an example: >> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-October/123312.html >> >> >> To be clear, for me at least there's only one wrong answer ("person >> who needs somewhere to run their IRC bouncer"). What's important in >> my opinion is that we have a bunch of people with *different* answers >> on the TC, because I think that will lead to better discussion and >> hopefully better decisions. >> >> Discuss. >> >> cheers, >> Zane. > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Cheers & Best regards, Feilong Wang (王飞龙) ------------------------------------------------------ Senior Cloud Software Engineer Tel: +64-48032246 Email: flw...@catalyst.net.nz Catalyst IT Limited Level 6, Catalyst House, 150 Willis Street, Wellington ------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev