On 08/01/2018 08:17 AM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 15:37, Monty Taylor <mord...@inaugust.com
<mailto:mord...@inaugust.com>>:
On 08/01/2018 06:22 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:
> On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:
>> Hey Ian and stackers!
>>
>> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand <iwien...@redhat.com
<mailto:iwien...@redhat.com>>:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited
traffic
>>> across all channels. The freenode team are aware [1] and doing
their
>>> best.
>>>
>>> There are not really a lot of options. We can set "+r" on channels
>>> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels.
We have
>>> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
>>> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
>>> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is
also not
>>> very accessible.
>>>
>>> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time
being, so
>>> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
>>>
>>> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
>>> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
>>> response.
>>>
>>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
request
>>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2] >>>
>>> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
>>
>> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
>> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org
<http://openstack.org>. It will not
>> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
this way will
>> give some base filtering by emails at least.
slack is pretty unworkable for many reasons. The biggest of them is
that
it is not Open Source and we don't require OpenStack developers to use
proprietary software to work on OpenStack.
The quality of slack that makes it effective at fighting spam is also
the quality that makes it toxic as a community platform - the need for
an invitation and being structured as silos.
Even if we were to decide to abandon our Open Source principles and
leave behind those in our contributor base who believe that Free
Software Needs Free Tools [1] - moving to slack would be a GIANT
undertaking. As such, it would not be a very effective way to deal with
this current spam storm.
> No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go
to a FLOSS
> one, like Matrix.org, or others.
We had some discussion in Vancouver about investigating the use of
Matrix. We are a VERY large community, so we need to do scale and
viability testing before it's even a worthy topic to raise with the TC
and the community for consideration. If we did, we'd aim to run our own
home server.
The last paragraph is the best answer why we never switch from IRC.
"we are a VERY large community"
Looking back at migration to Zuul V3: the project which is written by
folks who
know potencial high-load and usage, the project which has a great
background.
Some issues appeared only after launching it in production. Fortunately,
Zuul-community
quickly fixed them and we have this great CI system now.
As for the FOSS alternatives for the Slack aka modern IRC, I did not
heard anything
scalable for the size we need. Also, in case of any issues, they will
not be fixed as
quickly as it was with Zull V3 (thank you folks!).
Yes. This is an excellent point. In fact, just trying to figure out how
to properly test that a different choice can handle the scale is ...
very hard at best.
Another issue, the alternative should be popular, modern and usable. IRC
is the thing which
is used by a lot of communities (i.e. you do not need to install some
no-name tool to communicate for one more topic), the same for Slack and
I suppose
some other tools havethe same popularity (but I do not have installed
versions of them).
If the alternative doesn't feet these criteria, a lot of people will
stay at Freenode and migration will fail.
Yup. Totally agree.
However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an
open
federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server
might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be
in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we
had
the pain of moving.
All that to say though, matrix seems like the best potential option
available that meets the largest number of desires from our user base.
Once we've checked it out for viability it might be worth discussing.
As above, any effort there is a pretty giant one that will require a
large amount of planning, a pretty sizeable amount of technical
preparation and would be disruptive at the least, I don't think that'll
help us with the current spam storm though.
Monty
[1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
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--
Best regards,
Andrey Kurilin.
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