On 17/02/15 10:44 -0500, Doug Hellmann wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015, at 05:37 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote: > > ## Cores are *NOT* special > > > > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message > > changed and the feeling of core's being some kind of superheros became > > a thing. It's gotten far enough to the point that I've came to know > > that some projects even have private (flagged with +s), password > > protected, irc channels for core reviewers. > > This is seriously disturbing. > > If you're one of those core reviewers hanging out on a private channel, > please contact me privately: I'd love to hear from you why we failed as > a community at convincing you that an open channel is the place to be. > > No public shaming, please: education first. I've been thinking about these last few lines a bit, I'm not entirely comfortable with the dynamic this sets up. What primarily concerns me is the issue of community accountability. A core feature of OpenStack's project & individual team governance is the idea of democractic elections, where the individual contributors can vote in people who they think will lead OpenStack in a positive way, or conversely hold leadership to account by voting them out next time. The ability of individuals contributors to exercise this freedom though, relies on the voters being well informed about what is happening in the community. If cases of bad community behaviour, such as use of passwd protected IRC channels, are always primarily dealt with via further private communications, then we are denying the voters the information they need to hold people to account. I can understand the desire to avoid publically shaming people right away, because the accusations may be false, or may be arising from a simple mis-understanding, but at some point genuine issues like this need to be public. Without this we make it difficult for contributors to make an informed decision at future elections. Right now, this thread has left me wondering whether there are still any projects which are using password protected IRC channels, or whether they have all been deleted, and whether I will be unwittingly voting for people who supported their use in future openstack elections.I trust Stef, as one of our Community Managers, to investigate and report back. Let's give that a little time, and allow for the fact that with travel and other things going on it may take a while. I've added it to the TC agenda [1] for next week so we can check in to see where things stand. Doug [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda
Thanks! FWIW, I'm share Dan's concerns with regards to generating community awareness on what's considered a violation of openness not being enough. The issues discussed in this thread have a broader impact than just openness. Also, the channel still exists, despite dropping it being so simple: /msg chanserv drop #your-super-secret-channel But even if that drop happens in the next couple of minutes, I'd really love for us to find a better way to generate more awareness on these topics. The whole problem goes even beyond that channel existing now but the fact that it's been around for >1 year. This thread also meantioned other things that violate our openness. For instance: - Closed phone calls considered the place for making *final* decisions - Closed planning tools with restricted access. Nothing bad about using external tools as far as they remain OPEN. - Assuming 1 medium "is the right tool for everything" without taking under consideration other aspects of our community (TZ, language, etc). Again, thanks for making this point a priority for the TC as well, looking forward to the next TC meeting, I'll try to be there. Cheers, Flavio
Regards, Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o- http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev__________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
-- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco
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