On 14/12/16 12:05 -0500, Doug Hellmann wrote:
Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2016-12-14 09:56:46 -0600:OK, I think we had some grave misunderstandings here.1. ad-hoc meetings *are not* and *were never meant to be* replacement for weekly meetings. Kolla community is single community across all its deliverables and we hold common meetings, chats and mailing list. Also, as long as I'm PTL, I'm unwilling to change that. 2. Hangouts were never exclusive purposefully. Meeting link was always posted on irc, and nobody were excluded apart from people not present on irc at given time. 3. Language barrier is something to acknowledge. I would say if we find ourselves in situation where one of hangout users has problem communicating, we either move to IRC or try hard to accommodate his or hers language barrier. But on few hangouts I was on, that was not the case. If somebody didn't join because they were ashamed, please, feel free to approach me on private message (or if I'm not around, hangout organizer) and let me know. That would be reason enough to stick to IRC in my book 4. Hangouts were never exclusive to core team. Just happened that core reviewers were majority of it - not planned or enforced. 5. Only "exclusiveness" I can think of in context of ad hoc meetings are that people who aren't around irc cannot have voice on this meeting. Simply because they aren't around and meeting was unplanned. That's the case with *any* discussion outside of dedicated 1hr every week. Granted, irc has logs. Hangouts can have notes, or outcome could be reflected as PoC in gerrit for example (which was the case of hangout in question..).As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the Google Hangout service itself is *blocked* in some countries. It is therefore by definition not something we can call a fully open meeting venue. Which is not to say it can never be used, but we all need to be aware of the fact that choosing it means we exclude participation from other team members (or potential team members).
+1 Besides Google Hangout being blocked in some countries, I'd also like to highlight a couple of other issues with vide/voice meetings: 1) For *many* people in our community it's already *hard* enough to communicate in written English. Requesting these members to join a video/voice meeting will put them in a not-so-comfortable spot. 2) Many of our contributors live in countries where fast internet connection is, unfortunately, not a reality. Having video/voice calls will likely prevent them from joining as well. 3) Members of our community work in a variaty of different places (planes, coffee shops, offices, homes, etc) and vide/voice meetings are difficult to join in many of this places. For example, if you have a newborn, you probably don't want to join a video/voice call to avoid making noise. If you work from a coffee shop (or even an office), it'll be hard to join video/voice calls because of the noise or who knows what else might be happening there. Let's not even talk about planes ;) 4) Voice/video meetings are hard to log. This make it hard for folks in not EU/US "friendly" timezones to keep up. 5) *Many* members of our community simply don't feel comfortable with video/voice meetings, even native english speakers. Some of these points have been mentioend already but given that I've a strong opinion about this, I thought I'd mention them anyway. FWIW, sometimes waiting for people to complain to change something is just the wrong strategy, especially when it comes down to improving a community. If your community depends on things that are unwelcome for some of its members, you must change it. Some cultures don't believe in complaining and some others will just leave. Either way, the project/community will pay the price. I'd like to urge the kolla team to drop these video calls entirely and stick to IRC which has been proven to be a good (not perfect) welcoming tool for the OpenStack community. Flavio [snip] -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
__________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev