Well said Joe. On Dec 27, 2013 7:37 AM, "Joe Gordon" <joe.gord...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 2013 4:24 AM, "Tristan Goode" <tris...@aptira.com> wrote: > > > > I'm having trouble seeing these great points of insight here other than > it seems to indicate that the design summit format could be improved. > Distilling this down to "We developers are all too busy at the summit, why > don’t you users go get your own thing" suggests that perhaps it's time for > a review of the summit format. > > > > I think that's missing a key point, there is much more to this then > evaluating the summit format. The summit is the middle of a long > development dialog not the beginning or the end. Getting more operator > feedback to the developers shouldn't just happen at the summits, it should > be a continuous process just like openstack planning and development. So we > need some way for operators and developers to have a continuous dialog. > Developers communicate today on: IRC, email and launchpad and lastly in > person twice a year at the design summit. > > > > > > > After all it does say "users" and "developers" on the summit logo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mark Collier [mailto:m...@collierclan.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013 12:30 AM > > To: Sean Dague > > > > Cc: openstack@lists.openstack.org > > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at > the next summit > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean. You and Thierry have made great points on this thread that > I think give people more insight into the process and timing required to > really impact the releases. > > > > I've fallen into the trap many times of thinking we can solve any > problem in the world during the 10 days a year we are all together, but in > the end its only 10 days. No matter how you organize them, they don't any > get longer. > > > > So +1 for some activities well before the summit to gather input. I > think Tim's suggestion makes a ton of sense. > > > > IMHO we should also avoid the trap of thinking that for gatherings to be > valuable "everyone has to be there". That's what leads back to thinking the > summit weeks are the answer to everything. As Tim said, it's quite likely > operators are experiencing a lot of the same pain points, so what is needed > is critical mass and action, not every known user in one room > (unrealistic). Perhaps with some online components where operators that > couldn't make a meetup can weigh in (and give a weighted priority to a > list?) > > > > On Dec 23, 2013 6:35 AM, "Sean Dague" <s...@dague.net> wrote: > >> > >> On 12/22/2013 12:49 PM, rob_hirschf...@dell.com wrote: > >> > I’d like to repeat a suggestion at the Design Summit wrap up – it’s a > >> > bit different, so patience… > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > My suggestion was to insert a day “break” into the four day Design > >> > Summit for users/operations. Effectively, we’d have a four day design > >> > summit with Monday+Tuesday - break for user/ops conf – > >> > Thursday+Friday. This would allow the developers and PTLs to join in > >> > the conference parts of the summit without needed a distinct event. > >> > The regular non-design conference could be held Tuesday-Thursday so > >> > there’s a specific overlap day when 100% of the community would be > together. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I felt like this allows ideas from the summit to be socialized with > >> > users/operator before we commit to them. I also felt that it makes > the > >> > developers more accessible. Finally, it creates a break/reflection > from > >> > the intensity of the design. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To recap, 4 day design, 3 day user/ops conference spanning 5 days. > >> > >> Honestly I'd be pretty -1 on that idea. There is a certain momentum that > >> builds inside the design summit sessions that 2 hard context switches > >> like that would really hurt. If you've ever spent time in the Nova track > >> you can see this in spades. > >> > >> I think one of the missing things for folks that don't spend all their > >> time in Design Summit is realizing that DS is really the *middle* of the > >> conversation, not that start of one. I actually think this is where > >> folks new to design summit tend to flail a little be in their sessions. > >> My goals for design summit, and my tracks, were set weeks in advance, > >> and there was very little new here, it was mostly about working through > >> the sticky details on things we largely were already working on, and > >> exposing some of that work to a wider audience which drags in new > >> volunteers. So the User / Ops day at Summit is far too late to impact > >> that release cycle. > >> > >> That interaction needs to come 3+ weeks before Design Summit to be > >> effective on that cycle. Because if it's later than that, it's just too > >> much to digest at a point where the plates are already overflowing. The > >> key developers are already about 200% booked at Summits at this point, > >> which is actually why *more* OpenStack PTLs spoke at LinuxCon NA this > >> year than at OpenStack Summit HK. For instance, I only wandered out side > >> of Design Summit twice, when I was on stage. And I didn't even get a > >> chance to go to any of the public parties, as I was booked every single > >> night at summit - weeks in advance. > >> > >> So I think that all those folks are pretty open to getting more engaged > >> with Users / Ops (I know I am), but the existing Summit structure isn't > >> going to allow that. Making people 250% booked at Summit isn't going to > >> really be a successful way to handle this. > >> > >> I'm far more positive on something mid cycle, preferably at other > >> conferences that we expected there to be OpenStack folks at to begin > with. > >> > >> -Sean > >> > >> -- > >> Sean Dague > >> Samsung Research America > >> s...@dague.net / sean.da...@samsung.com > >> http://dague.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > >> Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > >> Unsubscribe : > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > Post to : openstack@lists.openstack.org > > Unsubscribe : > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack > > >
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