Lisa, What?!! Are you betting against getting fired or for being fired? Cherie Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha! Have a great weekend everyone Lisa -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gabriel Galanternik INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Title: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Gabriel, I agree. In the past it hasn't been us vs. them. It just has gotten worse in the last few months. Why can't we just all get along? Sure, it's quiet when I don't insist upon proper procedures.
I DID change the passwords, this morning, after someone left the company yesterday. That's what caused this entire rift!
Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha!
Have a great weekend everyone
Lisa
-----Original Message-----
From: Gabriel Galanternik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we,
developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of
get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint
it blue.
developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side
of the phone yelling!
and that's first reason of messing everything up.
(ok, don't generalize)
users' bosses want the same.
why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks
developers and dbas as
separate things?
If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an
organization problem
try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy
Gabriel Galanternik
----- Original Message -----
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM
Lisa,
Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of
the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in
the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are
to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete
restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have
the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of
understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are
asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion
that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO
starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed
up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more
comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We
in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service
organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the
production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$
and performance in front of the CEO.
HTH
Rodd Holman
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
"Hello Oracle Guru"
Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my
workplace. ??
How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with
developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do
whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different
that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd
time this has happened, and he sends out a
let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go
ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake
recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no
ifs, ands or buts.
My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my
authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say,
Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it.
Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in
production.
And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this
dba/developer/janitor role for so long.
I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon
somewhere...
Lisa Rutland Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator
Qode.com
4850 North State Road 7
Suite G104
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319
V: 954.484.3191, x174
F: 954.484.2933
C: 954.658.5849
http://www.qode.com
"The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position
of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com."
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Gabriel Galanternik
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
