YUP they sure have.  I wonder what they'll look like in another 20 years?

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Peter Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:       6/4/2002 10:31 AM

Guess we had different experiences.  OSF was being
replaced in favor of digital unix when I started my
sys admin days on DECs.  They were also Oracle's
preferred platform at the time.  Things have changed a
lot since then.


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Peter,
> 
>     Please allow me to disagree.  I came from the
> USAF with a very deep love for
> DEC hardware and software (VAX/VMS), only to be VERY
> disappointed by them when I
> was presented with DEC Ultrix.  Their straying into
> the Unix world was a real
> nightmare.  First off their sales folks over sold
> the capabilities of the
> 5000/240 workstation.  A database server it was not.
>  Ultrix was a failure right
> out of the gate.  That monster combination was a
> guarantee that I would get a
> page every night that it was here and the server a
> re-boot.  It finally took me
> three years to get a Ultrix tech to admit that they
> had not implemented a
> TCP_KEEP_ALIVE capability into Ultrix and that I
> would never see it.  At that
> time the only path was to upgrade to an Alpha with
> OSF-1 which was crashing on a
> daily basis.  Oracle back then recommended a cold
> backup of the database twice a
> day.  One of the soccer dads whose's daughter was on
> the same team as mine was a
> DEC/Compaq employee.  His recommendation was to stay
> away from OSF at all costs.
>  He was one of the lucky ones when Compaq sold off
> the CASE tools operation.  Oh
> how I would have loved moving back onto a VAX, but
> DEC was not interested in
> that platform any more and HP's 9000 platform was
> not only cheaper to acquire
> and support, but faster and more capable as well. 
> We benchmarked a DEC Ultrix
> box specifically tailored by DEC to database work
> against an HP9000 that 'just
> happen to between owners'.  The DEC was a multi
> processor unit, stuffed with
> every bite of RAM it could hold, multi scsi ports
> with load balancing on their
> (at that time) best disk system and a custom Oracle
> install with a highly tuned
> (by DEC engineers) Ultrix kernel.  We passed then a
> dmp file with 1 million rows
> of data for two tables and 4 SQL scripts to run
> against the data.  Took them all
> day to get the results.  Did the same test with the
> HP that had minimal RAM, one
> scsi port and only the internal drives and a default
> Oracle install and only
> that tweaking of the HP kernel in Oracle's install
> manual.  Same test ran in 4.5
> hours hands down.   I left DEC behind at that time,
> never to return.  As of
> today, I love the HP's I have to work with.  I do
> not believe them to be
> outclassed anywhere and that they do outclass all in
> terms of reliability and
> dependability.  I must admit to really enjoying a
> server platform that does it's
> job day in and day out for months or years without
> so much as a burp.  I'm sure
> that part of that are three very good SA's, but the
> hardware/OS speaks for
> itself as well.
> 
>     I did not shed one tear when DEC fell to Compaq,
> and will not now that
> Compaq is falling to HP.  I am sure that the good of
> DEC/Compaq will find it's
> way into HP-UX as well as the HP9000 series.  So
> we've only good things to look 
> forward to.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> ____________________Reply
> Separator____________________
> Author: Peter Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:       6/4/2002 8:08 AM
> 
> It's a shame that Digital had such good computer
> scientists and such lousy marketing.  Digital Unix
> and
> the AlphaServer were the most stable Unix boxes in
> the
> world.  Compaq never did understand the gem it
> purchased and HP will never admit that their current
> generation of hardware was outclassed by Digital 10
> years ago.
> 
> All good runs must come to an end.  It is just too
> bad
> that the end is an execution by technical nitwits.
> 
> 
> --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Stephane, Hemant
> >       Below is the official word that I pulled off
> HP's
> > website. It is
> > straight PR material, so read between the words as
> > you choose. As I recall,
> > Compaq had already decided not to build the
> > next-generation Alpha chip
> > before the merger arose. If you are interested, I
> > would suggest that you
> > attend the HP roadshow when it comes to a city
> near
> > you and ask them the
> > hard questions yourself. Having worked for a
> > computer manufacturer in the
> > past, I can assure you that the manufacturer would
> > appreciate it if you
> > bought the last system to come off the production
> > line, then never called
> > them for support. My company plans to continue
> > operating our Tru64 systems
> > for several years to come, and they have provided
> > wonderful service. But
> > we're purchasing new Sun systems.
> > 
> > "In this session, an HP Executive will highlight
> the
> > important current and
> > future role HP's business critical and high
> > performance AlphaServer(tm)
> > products play. We will also discuss the latest
> > advancements across the hp
> > AlphaServer product family, the latest on the
> future
> > ItaniumR processor
> > family, and provide an update on the related
> > operating systems strategy. In
> > particular, we will share the updated OpenVMS(tm)
> > roadmap for continued
> > development and support on the AlphaServer
> platform
> > as well as a review of
> > the progress to date for porting OpenVMS to
> > ItaniumR-based systems.
> > Discussion will also include the most
> > up-to-the-minute plans for integrating
> > Tru64(tm) UNIXR into HP-UX on the ItaniumR
> > architecture and the continued
> > development and support of Tru64 UNIX on the
> > AlphaServer platform."
> > 
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:53 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I'd never heard that Oracle has stopped 
> > or is stopping support for Tru64.
> > We have more than 35 production databases
> > on Tru64 and have no intention of moving
> > out of Alpha-Tru64 in a hurry.  We're even
> > looking at upgrading a mission critical
> > 8iOPS cluster on Tru64 to 9iRAC on Tru64.
> > 
> > Hemant K Chitale
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, 02 June, 2002 9:28 PM
> > 
> > 
> > > Stephane Faroult wrote:
> > > 
> > > > ...Historically, Oracle was a port to
> > > > Digital (remember this brand?)
> > > 
> > > Interesting.  I'm reading this list because of a
> > recent
> > > project to retire the Digital-Alpha
> workstations.
> > > The main reason that these machines must be
> > de-commissioned is
> > > because Oracle stopped supporting Tru64.
> > > (Although it needs to be done EVENTUALLY, since
> > Alpha
> > >   is basicly dead anyway.)
> > > 
> > > The Alphas were bought to retire the VMS from
> 4-7
> > years ago!
> > > 
> > > Talk about unfortunate planning!
> > > -- 
> > > Aaron Birenboim | The top three attributes of a
> 
=== message truncated ===


=====
Pete Barnett
Lead Database Administrator
The Regence Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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