Not sure about "cash for a new boat ", but I'm sure read, that Ellison is getting his CEO salary in company stocks (not in cash). This could explain, him selling stocks, though 700,000,000 seems little high. The other point is, that Oracle stock didn't drop overnight - it was going down gradually (along with the rest of the market) for last two years.
And, no I'm not Larry's defender, just don't like politicians even more. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:33 PM (test, posting from www.mail2web.com) Gary, Certainly. I'm waiting for people to present more factual information. (Maybe Larry needed some petty cash for a new boat or something?) Instead, what you see is people defending the social privileges of the wealthy technocorporate elites, and the ethos of sleaze, extreme greed and selfishness that they are mired in. Do you know if Oracle's accounting practices are currently documented in a way that is transparent to investors? I guess a lot of alleged "facts" will come out after the august deadline that the SEC has imposed for corporate executives to sign off on the validity of their accounting. regards, ep Original Message: ----------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:53:34 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric, Have you considered the POSSIBILITY that Larry sold the stock without the benefit of insider trading, and simply got lucky with his timing? After all, the main reason Oracle stock has lost so much value is not due to problems specific to the company, but due to problems in the market and economy as a whole. So where would the insider info come into play? And if he really did have insider info, and was acting unethically, why not sell more shares? The amount he sold was probably less than 5% of his holdings. I don't mean to defend ceo misconduct, corporate fraud, etc, I just think you need look this particular accusation a little more objectively, especially when you consider its source. I have great respect for McCain's war record and heroism, but now he is a politician, a Senator no less. IMHO, one can't take anything any politician says at face value. Given a choice between honesty and self-promotion, I'm afraid politicians too often choose the latter. And without getting into specifics about McCain, he seems to be second in the Senate only to my own Sen. Schumer in his love of getting on TV (Q: What's the most dangerous place in NY? A: Between Chuck Schumer and a TV camera). Larry makes a convenient and easy target, someone a politician knows he can attack, get a good soundbite, and have very little chance of being challenged. Gary -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L trying again... ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Responsibility / Re: OT Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:14:39 -0400 | Original Message: | ----------------- | From: Johnson, M=2E | Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:23:21 -0800 | To: ORACLE-L@fatcity=2Ecom | Subject: RE: McCain on Larry Ellison and Corporate Responsibility / Re: = OT | Not defending Ellison for anything,=20 Understood | but it appears | McCain is just another politician who is only interested | in his future and he constantly takes on these "reform | ideas" and just makes the matter worse That sounds really cynical to me. Are you just speculating, or do you have any info to back that up? Note that Oracle/Ellison attempted to buy off politicians here in Sacramento in order to stop the JLAC (legislative) audit of Oracle's ELA with the State of California Note that Senator Sarbanes was on the same TV program ("Meet the Press") as McCain, and generally agreed with McCain that there is a horrible lack of corporate responsibility, and that reforming the institutions designed to protect the public's interests has been made extremely difficult by the influence of corrupt lobbyists and lack of effective campaign reform Tim Russert (a rare TV journalist with some integrity) and the Senators spent most of their time discussing the issue of putting executive stock options on the "expense" sheets so as to more correctly reflect profitability (or lack thereof) Do you think it better serves the investment community for sleazy corrupt executives to be able to hide their shenanighans from analysts and investors? | Everyone should accept the fact that we are in a bear | market and as such all the boats go down Argh, that is the problem, when you have these outrageous examples of greedy, corrupt corporate executives cashing out (***AFTER COOKING THE BOOKS***), leaving others to sink | Everyone should have been smart enough to sell stocks and | put their money into cash or better yet short stocks | when it was very clear that in the Fall of 2000 after the | initial March 2000 sell off that we were going into | a prolonged Bear market "Should have been" !?!?! That isn't really the issue. As mentioned above, the issue was how excess greed played out when "the books were cooked" to create a false impression of profitability | Ellison probably took the money and ran when this | became apparent to him and many others. I know I did. So (regardless of whether Ellison is a good example, or not), do you think that there should be *any* accountability for the social damage caused by greed driven unethical accounting practices? (fwiw, I'm sympathetic to libertarian/"Chicago school" free market ideology, but I fear that like its opposite, leftist utopianism, when taken to extremes, it doesn't work all that well in the "real world".) regards, ep -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L OT - unix My understanding is that this was the very first time Ellison had ever sol= d Oracle stock, in over 25 years of the company's existence, in 2000, which = is the occasion that McCain (and you) are referring to=2E As you might be aw= are, there was a far greater "opportunity" for Ellison to "cash out" and leave Oracle dangling in 1990, when the price dropped from around $20 to $6 almo= st overnight after some financial-earning restatements=2E On that occasion, = he would certainly have had prior knowledge of what was going to happen, to p= ut it mildly=2E In 2000, any foreknowledge of a long-term downturn (26 month= s and counting?) would have been worth far more than $700m, especially to someone holding several billions in equities=2E=2E=2E ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE- L@fatcity=2Ecom> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 10:13 PM unix > Speaking of herds, or at least what is left behind on > the ground after they pass: > > on "Meet the Press" (TV program), Senator John McCain > said that Larry Ellison cashed out $700,000,000 of his > Oracle stocks just before they lost most of their > value (sarcasm: I'm sure he is planning on plowing it > back into the company, especially improving quality in > OWS and Metalink)=2E > > regards, > ep > > > On 14 Jul 2002 at 16:28, Alex wrote: > > Date sent: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:28:18 -0800 > the future > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <ORACLE-L@fatcity=2Ecom> > > > =2E=2E=2E As far as DB vendors targeting linux they move in herds and = have > > just finished their linux port from when "linux" was a buzzword=2E > > =2E=2E -------------------------------------------------------------- ------ mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. 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You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).