Everything good comes at a price. And never trust any system, where to shut down, you got to click on start ;-)
Regards Raj "Steve Perry" <sperry@spryn To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> et.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000 root@fatcity. com November 13, 2002 09:08 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Thanks, but that wouldn't convince him. He'd say it wasn't MS's fault. It was our for not securing it :( When you want to believe something, you don't let facts get in the way :) Steve ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:54 AM > Steve, > > Get your Boss to read the following. Jared - one more arrow in your quiver! > > --6 November 2002 Bermudan Bank Site Defaced > Hackers may have exploited a Microsoft operating system vulnerability > to deface two Bermudan websites, including that of the Bank of > Butterfield. Bank officials say no customer data was compromised. > The site hosts are recommending that their clients who work with data > that needs to be protected switch to their Unix based hosting platform. > http://www.bermudasun.bm/cgi-local/edpull.pl?cat=01News&ord=03&ed=2002-11-06 > [Editor's Note Schultz]: The recommendation in this news item should > add a considerable amount of fuel to the "whose operating system is > most secure" debate.] > > John Kanagaraj > Oracle Applications DBA > DBSoft Inc > (W): 408-970-7002 > > What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the end > of your journey in this earth? > > ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my > employer or clients ** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve Perry [mailto:sperry@;sprynet.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:09 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re: Solaris vs Windows 2000 > > > > > > Jared, > > > > Here's my recollection of a losing battle. I hope this helps. > > > > I "used" to work on Unix (AIX and Solaris) and can only think > > about the good > > ol' days... > > Now, I work on Comcrap Servers (i mean HP) running Microslop > > NT and 2000. > > We have tons of them :) > > I asked my boss why they are using Windows instead of Unix. > > I gave him all the arguments about scalability, secure... and > > not having to > > do the weekly reboots and he listened patiently. > > He finally said "How much will a Sun server cost?". I said > > I'd have to check > > on it, but he said We are running a 500 gig SAP system on a > > $5K compaq with > > 6 other compaq app servers that cost less than that. He asked > > what the Unix > > would cost. I started to answer that the hardware isn't the > > only cost and we > > have an EMC disk array behind it, but he stopped me and said > > it doesn't > > matter. He walks into the CIO's office and asks for a $70K > > dollar Solaris > > box and he gets booted out of the office. He can nickle and > > dime him for $5K > > servers... > > I pointed out that we had to spend a million dollars on a EMC > > Symmetrix with > > Clarion and he said "exactly". We spend the big money on the > > I/O subsystem > > for a bunch of servers and we can buy all the cheap up front > > hardware we > > want. Next, he pointed out that we'd have to hire a Unix > > admin and that > > would cost money. "Everybody knows how to administer Windows" > > he says. I > > said "pressing control-alt-del isn't administration". He also > > said that with > > EMC behind the scenes we don't have to worry about > > distributing the I/O. EMC > > will take care of it for us. I said that look at all the > > wasted time because > > we have to come in weekends (at least once a month) and > > install Win patches > > that take our systems down. "That doesn't cost us anything > > because you're > > not paid hourly and that only impacts a few people" my boss > > says. "What > > about all the time wasted finding tools/scripts so we can do > > the same type > > of monitoring/troubleshooting that you can on Unix", I ask. > > "You only need > > that once in a while and we can reboot the system if can't > > determine the > > problem" he laughs. His last argument was that all the > > developers want the > > MS platform so they can write VB and .NET apps. "MS works > > really well with > > other MS products than it does with other vendors", Nobody > > knows java. I > > said "90% of the developers are contractors, we can bring in > > that talent". > > His final answer was "That was inappropriate and people with > > those skills > > cost more". -- How can you argue with that mentality? He > > forgets that I > > have mentored or helped get a few developers up to speed on > > Oracle and now > > that they understand it more, they really appreciate it. > > > > The Wintel platform for the most part has worked for us as > > long as you have > > a million dollar disk array behind it ;) > > Oracle's a little quirky on it - one time it won't shutdown > > and the next > > time the exact same situation it does... > > You're going to have a tough time arguing price unless you > > have all the > > numbers and you can hammer it home the first time - you only get one > > chance... Don't forget that your manager has to walk in to > > the office of the > > CIO or CFO and justify it to them. > > My argument would be, if you have employees with unix skills > > keep the unix > > platform. Once you get MS inhouse, it's like a virus - you > > will have 1000 > > pet projects spread across the enterprise in developer's > > cubes and PCs with > > post-its that say "Don't Shutdown - Dept. XYZ Risk Mgt. System!!!". > > Don't forget my manager's comment that "Everybody can > > administer a Windows > > box." - Once it's in the doors, everybody will and there's no > > security... > > It reminds me of when i worked on the mainframe and we got > > our first Unix > > system in. The mainframers said we only need one mainframe to > > support the > > company and 10 unix servers. Now it's 10 unix servers and > > 1000 MS servers... > > look at all the support costs that go into supporting all that. > > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Steve Perry > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: John Kanagaraj > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Perry INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).