Dennis,
My heartburn with third party vendors is not that they don't have good
Oracle people on their helpdesk, but rather that they don't have good Oracle
people period. One of our third party vendors, forever to remain nameless(so I
stay out of trouble), has an Oracle DBA who just happen to figure out how to get
the software installed period. This fool (can't think of a more politically
correct adjective without killing the meaning) is the one who recommended
setting processes to 20,000 and restarting the database every 24 hours. That
for a group of 15 people who use the application? He also doesn't think it's
improper to put objects (tables, indexes, views, etc.) in the sys schema and
"one should never run in archivelog mode because hardware doesn't break any
longer, plus it places too much overhead on the database". Come on, this guy is
a real nutcase!! On top of all that, how many third party apps do you know of
that mandate that they exist in an instance by themselves and that they have to
have DBA authority? Most if not all of them. I've only run into a very small
handful of apps that absolutely do not want more than access to a tablespace and
the ability to create public synonyms. These vendors sure enough had very
strong Oracle people on their development staffs. We have one & I really
appreciate it.
Dick Goulet
____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2/26/2003 3:44 PM
Dick - I would like to point out the reason the vendors don't have good
Oracle people working their help desk. You would be quite qualified -- would
you be willing to work the help desk? I'll bet not! Neither would I. So
those best qualified for a job won't take it . . . hmmm.
Then the other part is that the help desk represents one of the vendor's
biggest expenses. If it is not well managed, the company can easily go
broke. So they have to make sure everyone is overloaded and underpaid.
Development is a different situation because a top developer can build you a
better mousetrap that will put you ahead of your competitors. Better help
desk people are good, but then the word gets out and every novice calls them
directly with their RTFM questions. If I've offended someone on the list
that works a help desk, my apologies. We need you, especially the good ones
and often you go beyond the call of duty.
Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Jeff,
Let's see, the sys admin installed all of it right? Therefore it MUST
be
the sys admin's problem. END OF CONVERSATION.
Now I'm sure the boss isn't going to like that very much, mine would
not.
So we re-install the database MY way. Most of the time the problems
disappear
easily. Otherwise, have the users pay for a vendor consultant to come in &
tell
the sys admin that he messed up.
Right now we're having a problem with a third party help desk
application
that does a bad job cleaning up connections. The vendor recommended setting
processes = 20000 in the init.ora file & restart the instance every 24
hours.
The help desk manager asked me what I thought of that, you can imagine the
response. Anyway, we're now in MTS mode & the problem has been pushed back
to
the vendor with the "you want us to do WHAT???? Are you crazy??" response.
It's
a shame that vendors don't have Oracle trained people working for them!!
Dick Goulet
PS: If your using a telecom management software product from a company in
Manchester NH, USA, consider yourself LUCKY. They have some real talented
Oracle certified DBA's with experience working for them. They also don't
create
these types of problems.
____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Eberhard; Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2/26/2003 12:43 PM
Hi,
So my boss comes over this morning and tells me that the users are having a
performance problem with a 3rd party application that have recently began
using. This is an oracle database where they bought the software and had
the system admin install the software which included the vendors instruction
of creating and setting up the database (basically use the defaults). It is
an Oracle 8.1.7 database on Windows 2000. He wants me to find out "if you
can create some indexes or something", etc. (he likes to give solutions
before the cause if discovered).
Anyway, I decide to take a look at it. The performance they are
complaining about is when they log into the application it takes about a
minute for their initial screen (which includes a list of values) to appear.
I use the tool that someone posted here a while ago, SQL Monitor from
www.fastalgo.com, and find that during the time the user is waiting for the
first screen the application is executing a sql statement about 2200 times.
The SQL is: SELECT PARENTID FROM PROC_ WHERE PROCEDUREID=:1
The bind variable is different for each execution with appears to be the
procedureid values from the table proc_. Table proc_ has 2203 rows.
I check the executions for the sql text in v$sqlarea. Executions = 58,825.
(aha, I think this is the problem).
I explain plan the query and find that it is using the primary key index.
My tuning skills are still pretty basic. Since I have no control over the
application is there anything I can do to increase the performance of
running the query thousands of times?
Also how do you usually deal with 3rd party application issues like this?
95% of our databases/applications are from 3rd party vendors and it's a pain
trying to get them performing better.
Thanks,
Jeff Eberhard
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