ODTUG-JAVA-L Digest Fri, 15 Aug 2003 Volume 2003, Number 227
In This Issue: Subject Author ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- RE: Duplicate record function "Aaron Haimovitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] RE: Duplicate record function "Dan Grindstaff" <Dan.Grindstaff RE: Duplicate record function "Jeremy Ovenden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] RE: Struts "David Anstey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: What is Standard Edition? "Roel Stalman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Aaron Haimovitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:54:00 -0400 Subject: RE: Duplicate record function Are you using BC4J as a platform or straight JDBC to connect to the database? Aaron H. Haimovitz __________________ Ventureforth, Inc. Tel: 770 451 8045 Fax: 253 930 0857 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- Dan Grindstaff Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L Hello All, I need a simple function that can be used as a utility in any situation. This function will take a parameter and return a boolean. This function will determine whether the parameter value occurs more than once in a table. Any help would be appreciated. cheers, Dan ______________________ Dan Grindstaff Programmer/Analyst Office of Transit, Mn/DOT (651)296-6161 -- Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in 2004! If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com -- Author: Dan Grindstaff INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------------------------------ From: "Dan Grindstaff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:28:41 -0500 Subject: RE: Duplicate record function The connection should be incidental? This script should be executable over any connection as either free standing query or create stored procedure. thanks again, Dan Grindstaff ______________________ Dan Grindstaff Programmer/Analyst Office of Transit, Mn/DOT (651)296-6161 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/03 08:11 AM >>> Are you using BC4J as a platform or straight JDBC to connect to the database? Aaron H. Haimovitz __________________ Ventureforth, Inc. Tel: 770 451 8045 Fax: 253 930 0857 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- Dan Grindstaff Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L Hello All, I need a simple function that can be used as a utility in any situation. This function will take a parameter and return a boolean. This function will determine whether the parameter value occurs more than once in a table. Any help would be appreciated. cheers, Dan ______________________ Dan Grindstaff Programmer/Analyst Office of Transit, Mn/DOT (651)296-6161 -- Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in 2004! If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com -- Author: Dan Grindstaff INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in 2004! If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com -- Author: Aaron Haimovitz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------------------------------ From: "Jeremy Ovenden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:34:37 +0100 Subject: RE: Duplicate record function An odd request to send to the Java group? I think some more details are required to get a meaningful answer. cheers jeremy > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Dan Grindstaff > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 3:24 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L > Subject: RE: Duplicate record function > > > The connection should be incidental? This script should be executable > over any connection as either free standing query or create stored > procedure. > > thanks again, > > Dan Grindstaff > > ______________________ > Dan Grindstaff > Programmer/Analyst > Office of Transit, Mn/DOT > (651)296-6161 > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/03 08:11 AM >>> > Are you using BC4J as a platform or straight JDBC to connect to the > database? > > > Aaron H. Haimovitz > __________________ > Ventureforth, Inc. > Tel: 770 451 8045 > Fax: 253 930 0857 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > Dan Grindstaff > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:54 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L > > > Hello All, > > I need a simple function that can be used as a utility in any situation. > This function will take a parameter and return a boolean. This function > will determine whether the parameter value occurs more than once in a > table. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > cheers, > > Dan > > > ______________________ > Dan Grindstaff > Programmer/Analyst > Office of Transit, Mn/DOT > (651)296-6161 > -- > Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in > 2004! > If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com > -- > Author: Dan Grindstaff > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in > 2004! > If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com > -- > Author: Aaron Haimovitz > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- > Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See > you in 2004! > If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com > -- > Author: Dan Grindstaff > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ODTUG-JAVA-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: Mon 04/08/2003 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: Mon 04/08/2003 ------------------------------ From: "David Anstey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:08:11 -0400 Subject: RE: Struts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C36254.5B496F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, =20 >>>My concern is that ODTUG may be failing to attract significant numbers of the Oracle crowd that are building Java applications with JDev. If so, how do we change that (assuming the members want to)? =20 >>>If ODTUG cannot bring Oracle J2EE developers into the fold, then there is no ODTUG. There may also be no good development. If the Java community, with their "The database is just a place to store a copy of the classes." attitude, cannot be educated to the qualities of good DB design then we will start seeing failures of large systems at higher than ever levels. =20 All developers love to try out new tools and use them and ODTUG is committed to serving the Java/Oracle, J2EE community but the economic reality is that a vast number of our members are stuck maintaining older applications because companies cannot or will not spend money to migrate or build new systems. If it seems that ODTUG is slow to move technologically it is because our responsibility is to continue to help those that are still using Forms 4.5 or worse, not just evangelize the latest product (which we also do).=20 =20 Paul=92s point about merging the attitudes of the OO and relational = world are quite correct. If application developers =93don=92t get it=94 when = it comes to database design then there will be a dearth of poor systems out there and that only serves to damage the reputation of an industry that is already in pain. =20 As an organization, ODTUG is out there to bridge this gap. The challenge we face is in overcoming various mind sets and prejudices and working together to improve the =93science=94 of application development. =20 Despite the overwhelming download traffic from OTN, I would appreciate knowing how many companies are using JDeveloper in a PRODUCTION environment to build an enterprise application. All of you out there doing so may respond to me directly. =20 Regards, David A. Anstey President Oracle Development Tools User Group <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] POCSOL, Inc <http://www.pocsol.com/> www.pocsol.com - 502-905-1460 Providing: Oracle Designer/Developer consulting services, training, mentoring and project management for information resources planning and management, including custom design, development, and implementation. =20 -----Original Message----- Paul Dorsey Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L =20 My concern is that ODTUG may be failing to attract significant numbers of the Oracle crowd that are building Java applications with JDev. If so, how do we change that (assuming the members want to)? =20 >>>If ODTUG cannot bring Oracle J2EE developers into the fold, then there is no ODTUG. There may also be no good development. If the Java community, with their "The database is just a place to store a copy of the classes." attitude, cannot be educated to the qualities of good DB design then we will start seeing failures of large systems at higher than ever levels. =20 The savior here has to be in 2 parts: 1) What is the right system to build? What really does an OO/Relational hybrid look like? 2) What is the method for doing 1)? =20 We need to merge not only the technologies but also the cultures. Perhaps ODTUG should consider merging their meeting with Java1. We need each other. =20 What I keep hearing from Oracle is that you want to give us options and don't want to dictate how systems should be built. Different systems require different methods. The reality is that I think you are also trying to find the "right" answer. I think you really are grappling with the best way to design and build a system. I think ADF is movement in that direction. Figuring out a good answer to that question is MUCH more important than keeping up with the next new buzz word. Forget JSFs when they come out until you have given us a better environment that works on the stuff we have now. =20 =20 -------------------- As to the person that asked my advice. =20 =20 JDev is as good as any product on the market for building Java, J2EE, etc JDev is the only intelligent alternative for building Oracle apps using the above. BC4J should be used, not attempted and forgotten. JDev is a great product. It is evolving as fast as anything I have ever seen and it continues to get better with each release. =20 All my concern is that the environment is tough to learn and use. I agree that J2EE, Struts, etc. is technically sound and usable. JDev is a sound way to build that stuff. BUT, it is a painful process to build even average things. In my JDev Open World paper I a putting in a bibliography of needed books. Here it is: =20 The library of books required to support application development using JDeveloper is larger that what was needed for Oracle Forms development. The following is a list of suggested references: * Oracle 9i JDeveloper Handbook, Koletzke, Dorsey & Faderman, (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: 0072223847 * Oracle 9iAS: Building J2EE Applications, Morrisseau-Leroy (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: 0072226145 * Oracle 9i Application Server Portal Handbook, Vandivier & Cox (Oracle Press, 2001) ISBN: 0072222492 * Oracle 9i JDBC Programming, Jason Price, (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: 0072222549 (not needed if you use BC4J) * Java2: The Complete Reference (5th Edition), Herbert Schildt, (McGraw-Hill, 2002) ISBN: 0072224207 * Struts Kick Start, Turner & Bedell, (SAMS, 2002) ISBN: 0672324725 * Oracle9i XML Handbook, Chang, Scardina & Kiritzov, (Oracle Press, 2001) ISBN: 007213495X * Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code, Martin Fowler (Addison-Wesley, 1999) ISBN: 0201485672 * Oracle 9i Web Development, Bradley D. Brown (Oracle Press, 2001) ISBN: 0072193883 * The Java Class Libraries =96 Volumes 1, 2, 3, Chan & Lee, (Addison-Wesley) * The Java Tutorial (series), Campione, et. al (Addison-Wesley) =20 =20 Paul =20 =20 =20 =20 Bill =20 VP, App Dev Tools ----- Original Message -----=20 To: Multiple <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:14 AM =20 Abraham Alemu wrote: =20 >> This is a very interesting trend, I have to agree that the best I have seen so far in this forum. =20 That's not very difficult. Generally this list doesn't trouble my in box from one week to the next. Even when it does the posting is usually a question to which nobody knows the answer, so the thread fizzles out. I think the failure of ODTUG-JAVA to achieve critical mass is a validation of Paul's main thrust: there simply are not a lot of people out there building Java apps against Oracle databases. Or if they are, they are mainly a new community, people who think of themselves as Java people rather than Oracle people. So they tend to use Sun or JGuru or JavaWorld rather than Oracle channels. =20 Cheers, APC =20 This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. 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If so, = how do we change that (assuming the members want = to)?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>>>>If = ODTUG cannot bring Oracle J2EE developers into the fold, then there is no = ODTUG. There may also be no good development. If the Java community, with their "The database is just a place to store a copy of the classes." attitude, cannot be educated to the qualities of good DB design then we = will start seeing failures of large systems at higher than ever = levels.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All developers love to try out new = tools and use them and ODTUG is committed to serving the Java/Oracle, J2EE = community but the economic reality is that a vast number of our members are stuck maintaining older applications because companies cannot or will not = spend money to migrate or build new systems. If it seems that ODTUG is slow to move technologically it is because our responsibility is to continue to help = those that are still using Forms 4.5 or worse, not just evangelize the latest = product (which we also do). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Paul’s point about merging = the attitudes of the OO and relational world are quite correct. If = application developers “don’t get it” when it comes to database = design then there will be a dearth of poor systems out there and that only = serves to damage the reputation of an industry that is already in = pain.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As an organization, ODTUG is out = there to bridge this gap. The challenge we face is in overcoming various mind = sets and prejudices and working together to improve the “science” of application development.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Despite the overwhelming download = traffic from OTN, I would appreciate knowing how many companies are using <span class=3DSpellE>JDeveloper</span> in a PRODUCTION environment to build an enterprise application. All of you out there doing so may respond to me directly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><b><= font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>David A. = Anstey</span></font></b></strong><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><br> President<br> Oracle Development Tools User Group<br> </span></font><a href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>[EMAIL PROTECTED] sol.com</span></font></a><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><b><= font size=3D2 color=3Dmaroon face=3D"Tempus Sans ITC"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:maroon; mso-no-proof:yes'>POCSOL, Inc </span></font></b></strong><a href=3D"http://www.pocsol.com/";><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>www.pocsol.com</span></font></= a><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'> - 502-905-1460</span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Providing: Oracle Designer/Developer = consulting services, training, mentoring and project management for information = resources planning and management, including custom design, development, and implementation.</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy; mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original = Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> = [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>Paul Dorsey<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August = 13, 2003 4:09 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Multiple recipients = of list ODTUG-JAVA-L<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: = Struts</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My concern is that ODTUG = may be failing to attract significant numbers of the Oracle crowd that are building Java applications with JDev. If so, how do we change that = (assuming the members want to)?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>>>>If = ODTUG cannot bring Oracle J2EE developers into the fold, then there is no ODTUG. There may also be no good development. If the Java community, with their "The database is just a place to store a copy = of the classes." attitude, cannot be educated to the qualities of good DB = design then we will start seeing failures of large systems at higher than ever = levels.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The savior here = has to be in 2 parts:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>  = ; 1) What is the right system to build? What really does an = OO/Relational hybrid look like?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>  = ; 2) What is the method for doing 1)?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>We need to merge = not only the technologies but also the cultures. Perhaps ODTUG should = consider merging their meeting with Java1. We need each = other.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>What I keep = hearing from Oracle is that you want to give us options and don't want to dictate how systems should be built. Different systems require different methods. The reality is that I think you are also trying to find = the "right" answer. I think you really are grappling with = the best way to design and build a system. I think ADF is movement in that direction. Figuring out a good answer to that question is MUCH = more important than keeping up with the next new buzz word. Forget JSFs when = they come out until you have given us a better environment that works on the = stuff we have now.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>-----------------= ---</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As to the person = that asked my advice. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>JDev is as good = as any product on the market for building Java, J2EE, = etc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>JDev is the only intelligent alternative for building Oracle apps using the = above.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>BC4J should be = used, not attempted and forgotten.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>JDev is a great = product. It is evolving as fast as anything I have ever seen and it continues to = get better with each release.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>All = my concern is that the environment is tough to learn and use. I agree that J2EE, = Struts, etc. is technically sound and usable.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>JDev is a sound = way to build that stuff.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>BUT, it is a = painful process to build even average things.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>In my JDev Open = World paper I a putting in a bibliography of needed books. Here it = is:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The library of = books required to support application development using JDeveloper is larger = that what was needed for Oracle Forms development. The following is a list of suggested references:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle 9</span></font></i><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>i <i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span = style=3D'font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style: normal'>JDeveloper Handbook</span></i>, Koletzke, Dorsey & Faderman, (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: <span = class=3Dbodytextchar>0072223847</span></span></font><span class=3Dbodytextchar><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle 9iAS: Building J2EE = Applications</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Morrisseau-Leroy (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: <span class=3Dbodytextchar>0072226145<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle 9i Application Server Portal = Handbook</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Vandivier & Cox (Oracle Press, 2001) ISBN: <span class=3Dbodytextchar>0072222492<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle 9i JDBC = Programming</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Jason Price, (Oracle Press, 2002) ISBN: <span = class=3Dbodytextchar>0072222549 (not needed if you use BC4J)<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Java2: The Complete Reference = (5<sup>th</sup> Edition)</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>, Herbert = Schildt, (McGraw-Hill, 2002) ISBN: <span = class=3Dbodytextchar>0072224207<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Struts Kick Start</span></font></i><font = size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Turner & Bedell, (SAMS, 2002) ISBN: <span = class=3Dbodytextchar>0672324725<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle9i XML Handbook</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Chang, Scardina & Kiritzov, (Oracle Press, 2001) = ISBN:</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'> </span></font><span = class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>007213495X<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Refactoring: Improving the Design of = Existing Code</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Martin Fowler (Addison-Wesley, 1999) ISBN: <span class=3Dbodytextchar>0201485672<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Oracle 9i Web = Development</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Bradley D. Brown (Oracle Press, 2001) ISBN: <span class=3Dbodytextchar>0072193883<o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</spa= n></font></span><span class=3Dbodytextchar><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue><span = style=3D'font-size:7.0pt; color:blue'> = </span></font></span><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic;= mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>The Java Class Libraries – Volumes 1, = 2, 3</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Chan & Lee, (Addison-Wesley)<span = class=3Dbodytextchar><o:p></o:p></span></span></font></p> <p class=3Dbodycopy = style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;tab-stops:list .5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DSymbol><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:blue'>=B7</span></font><font size=3D1 = color=3Dblue><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:blue'> = </span></font><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue; font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>The Java Tutorial = (series)</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:blue'>, Campione, et. al = (Addison-Wesley)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Paul</span></font= ><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bill</span></font><o:p></o:p= ></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>VP, App Dev = Tools</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black = 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'= > <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message = ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style=3D'font-color:black'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span= ></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" = title=3D"[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Clarke, Andrew</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span><= /font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" = title=3D"[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span= ></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:14 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</s= pan></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: = Struts<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Abraham Alemu wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>>> This is a very interesting trend, I have to agree that the best I have = seen so far in this forum.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>That's not very difficult. Generally this list doesn't trouble my in box from = one week to the next. Even when it does the posting is usually a = question to which nobody knows the answer, so the thread fizzles out. I think = the failure of ODTUG-JAVA to achieve critical mass is a validation of Paul's = main thrust: there simply are not a lot of people out there building Java = apps against Oracle databases. Or if they are, they are mainly a new community, people who think of themselves as Java people rather than = Oracle people. So they tend to use Sun or JGuru or JavaWorld rather than = Oracle channels.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Cheers, = APC</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be = copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an = intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and = all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C36254.5B496F20-- ------------------------------ From: "Roel Stalman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:11:58 -0700 Subject: Re: What is Standard Edition? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C3627E.C9A4D4D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, 9.0.3 was a release of the core Java Edition. For the Standard Edition, = 9.0.2 is the latest. 9.0.4 will be the next version. Roel Stalman Oracle Corp ----- Original Message -----=20 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:54 PM Subject: What is Standard Edition? http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html says that = Standard Edition supports Portal but the otn software download page does = not indicate there is a Standard Edition, you can only download the = Enterprise Edition which includes Portal but is at 9.0.2 which doesn't = include features our application requires and Java Edition which does = not include Portal which is at 9.0.3. Is there a Standard Edition product at the 9.0.3 level? Thank you, Greg Harris Unify Corporation -----Original Message----- From: Shay Shmeltzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L Subject: Re: Struts Abraham,=20 >> what is 9iAS platform do in J2EE, sinc we get stand alone OC4J, = HTTP, etc. to deploy the JSP, Sevletes and EJB by=20 having JDevloper?=20 The stand alone OC4J that comes in JDeveloper is there to make it = simpler for you to test and debug your application on your development = machine. It is not meant to be used for production deployment - If you = want to deploy your J2EE applications on Oracle's J2EE container you'll = need to license Oracle9iAS. If you just want the J2EE parts of = Oracle9iAS you should get the Oracle9iAS Java Edition which includes the = J2EE container, HTTP Server, TopLink, Enterprise Manager and 5 seat = license for JDeveloper - that's priced at $5,000 per CPU.=20 If you are also interested in adding things like Single-Sign-On = security, Reporting etc, look at the other editions of Oracle9iAS.=20 http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html=20 As far as the question of whether JDeveloper can produce production = applications and are people using it - we have some customers stories on = these pages: = http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/index.html?content.html=20 and http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/content2.html=20 Regards,=20 Shay.=20 Abraham Alemu wrote:=20 This is a very interesting trend, I have to agree that the best I = have seen so far in this forum. I want to ask the discussants, if I = many, the following based on my perspective of beginner in these = technologies. Two weeks back I was attending one of those classes which = Oracle corp. organizes under the name Oracle Developer Days. It was in = Atlanta, Ga; I drove from Florida. J2EE for beginners and J2EE best = practice were part in those classes. Most to the presentation was the = use of JDeveloper in creating those application, and the lab was really = effective, I believe. I remember at one moment during those classes, = when asked how many of us are using Struts framework few hands were = raised( I mean about 5 from about 150 us). But most say without JDEV. = Now, I wonder if, Paul advise us beginners in these case, since he = wrote several version of books in JDeveloper. Most say JDevloper could = create production level J2EE others disagree, where is the line in this = debate? Bedside Oracle corp at every level tell us to go and refer to = Sun.com for the details, where is for us Oracle folks these techology = cross refrence lead us? I mean it is all confusing for most of us at = this stage.Besides, what is 9iAS platform do in J2EE, sinc we get stand = alone OC4J, HTTP, etc. to deploy the JSP, Sevletes and EJB by having = JDevloper? Any advise will be apreciated. Abraham=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Do you Yahoo!?=20 Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --=20 -------------------------------------------------------------=20 Shay Shmeltzer - Sr. Product Marketing Manager=20 Oracle Corporation=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C3627E.C9A4D4D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: = "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>9.0.3 was a release of the core Java Edition. For the Standard = Edition, 9.0.2 is the latest. 9.0.4 will be the next version.</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roel Stalman</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oracle Corp</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] = href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = [EMAIL PROTECTED] href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list=20 ODTUG-JAVA-L</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 13, = 2003 1:54=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> What is Standard = Edition?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html";>http:= //www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html</A>=20 says that Standard Edition supports Portal but the otn software = download page=20 does not indicate there is a Standard Edition, you can only download = the=20 Enterprise Edition which includes Portal but is at 9.0.2 which doesn't = include=20 features our application requires and Java Edition which does not = include=20 Portal which is at 9.0.3.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Is there a Standard Edition product at the = 9.0.3=20 level?</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thank you,</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Greg Harris</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Unify Corporation</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV=20 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue = 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20 Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> = Shay=20 Shmeltzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <BR><B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">Wednesday, August=20 13, 2003</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">12:34=20 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Multiple recipients of list = ODTUG-JAVA-L<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: = bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:=20 Struts</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Abraham, </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">>>=20 what is 9iAS platform do in J2EE, sinc we get stand alone OC4J, HTTP, = etc. to=20 deploy the JSP, Sevletes and EJB by <BR>having JDevloper? = </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">The stand=20 alone OC4J that comes in JDeveloper is there to make it simpler for = you to=20 test and debug your application on your development machine. It is not = meant=20 to be used for production deployment - If you want to deploy your J2EE = applications on Oracle's J2EE container you'll need to license = Oracle9iAS. If=20 you just want the J2EE parts of Oracle9iAS you should get the = Oracle9iAS Java=20 Edition which includes the J2EE container, HTTP Server, TopLink, = Enterprise=20 Manager and 5 seat license for JDeveloper - that's priced at $5,000 = per CPU.=20 <BR>If you are also interested in adding things like Single-Sign-On = security,=20 Reporting etc, look at the other editions of Oracle9iAS. <BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html";>http:= //www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/ias/index.html?pkgsum.html</A>=20 </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">As far as=20 the question of whether JDeveloper can produce production applications = and are=20 people using it - we have some customers stories on these pages: <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/index.html?content= .html">http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/index.html?content.= html</A>=20 <BR>and <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/content2.html";>htt= p://www.oracle.com/ip/develop/ids/customers/content2.html</A>=20 </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">Regards,=20 </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">Shay.=20 </SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">Abraham=20 Alemu wrote: </SPAN></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" = TYPE=3D"CITE"> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> This is a very interesting trend, I = have to=20 agree that the best I have seen so far in this forum. I want to = ask the=20 discussants, if I many, the following based on my perspective = of=20 beginner in these technologies. Two weeks back I was attending = one of=20 those classes which Oracle corp. organizes under the name Oracle = Developer=20 Days. It was in </SPAN></FONT>Atlanta, Ga; I drove from = Florida. J2EE=20 for beginners and J2EE best practice were part in those = classes. Most=20 to the presentation was the use of JDeveloper in creating those = application,=20 and the lab was really effective, I believe. I remember at one = moment=20 during those classes, when asked how many of us are using Struts = framework=20 few hands were raised( I mean about 5 from about 150 us). But most = say=20 without JDEV. Now, I wonder if, Paul advise us beginners = in these=20 case, since he wrote several version of books in JDeveloper. = Most say=20 JDevloper could create production level J2EE others disagree, where = is the=20 line in this debate? Bedside Oracle corp at every level tell us to = go and=20 refer to Sun.com for the details, where is for us Oracle folks these = techology cross refrence lead us? I mean it is all confusing for = most of us=20 at this stage.Besides, what is 9iAS platform do in J2EE, sinc we get = stand=20 alone OC4J, HTTP, etc. to deploy the JSP, Sevletes and EJB by having = JDevloper? Any advise will be apreciated. Abraham </P> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" = align=3Dcenter><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D1> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Do you Yahoo!? <BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D10469/*http:/sitebuilder.yahoo.com";>= Yahoo!=20 SiteBuilder</A> - Free, easy-to-use web site design=20 software</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt">--=20 <BR>------------------------------------------------------------- = <BR>Shay=20 Shmeltzer - Sr. Product Marketing Manager <BR>Oracle Corporation=20 <BR> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C3627E.C9A4D4D0-- ------------------------------ End Of ODTUG-JAVA-L Digest -- Volume 2003, Number 227 ***************************************************** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). 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