Hmm, so you're telling me you want me to let Larry know your views on this? Not this bunny! :)
The problem in putting out a limited production release is not so much in putting it out - that's dead easy. It's in the expectation that some form of support comes with it usually, and limited production code is usually limited because it's still beta - hence bugs and so on that need support resources to address. Of course, we don't have bugs in our Production code! :) However, I will raise your comments with the Product Management team so they're aware of them. Can't promise that will mean anything in the way of results of course! As for when you'll see the software, what Larry said at OracleWorld is still the only official date I've heard. Pete "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -----Original Message----- Mladen Gogala Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Pete, I'd like to clarify my position first: I don't have any burning problem that would compel me to start testing 10g. I want only to learn the new features. Second, I don't see why would putting a limited production version out for people to learn the new features be so much work. Third, inviting distinguished 10g users and allowing them early access would be fair and acceptable to me if it didn't last too long, thus making the advantage too large. Having this early start for this long is an annoying blunder, pure and simple. Oracle either shouldn't have announced the product that early or should have provided some software. Articles, white papers and veiled testimonies by the privileged ones are not enough. I believe you when you say that you don't have much influence because you really are a nice guy. Nevertheless, someone should tell the big guys that putting out some limited production version would be a good thing to do. If not that, then please tell us when can we expect to see the software. On 2003.12.09 14:39, Pete Sharman wrote: > Well, as you'd suspect I don't have any control over these sorts of > decisions! > > I didn't actually see the announcement on OTN, so I'm not sure who the > email would have gone to. There was a way Oracle employees could invite > customers to be part of the beta program, sp presumably your sales rep > didn't think you were important enough to be on the program. ;) > > Seriously, before Jared tells us to take this conversation offline, let > me make a couple of final points on this: > > 1. From Oracle's perspective, the beta program is an enormous amount of > work, and requires a lot of ongoing management of the customers > involved. For that reason, the beta program is not really designed to > be open to everyone. > > 2. If you think you really have a valid interest in being on the beta > program for future releases and are prepared to put in the work that's > involved with the beta program (logging bugs, testing new functionality > and so on), let me know and I can send you information on how to join > future beta programs as they occur. Since the beta proposals are > actually voted on, a compelling case will help with actually getting on > the beta program. > > 3. If you are simply interested in playing with the new features, > rather than seriously stress testing them, then I probably can't help > you. Decisions on "early adopter" sorts of programs that are set up to > handle people who want to "play" are beyond my level at Oracle. > > As for Mogens, I know he's on the beta program. I got him there, along > with a few of the other Oakies. It was a suggestion I came up with > because if we can get people like Mogens, Cary, Jonathan and Steve (who > are the four I suggested to Development) to say what a wonderful product > 10g is, then that's a really telling statement. I'm not sure that any > of them have said it yet, though! :) > > Pete > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" > > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA > > > -----Original Message----- > Mladen Gogala > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:40 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > There was an announcement on the OTN, but nobody replied to email. > When reading this list, I get impression that quite a few people > were able to get the software so far and that the shroud of secrecy > over the whole thing is maintained in order for them to gain advantage > over the rest of customers. Anyway, Christmas is almost here. When do > the rest us, not so important customers, get to see 10g? Speaking of > Mogens, I believe that he has 10g. > Whatever the intention was, it was a marketing blunder. As a customer, > I'm > less then happy with the impossibility of getting to know 10g despite > the > multitude of materials posted about it. I even tried to get 10g CDs from > my oracle sales rep. but the guy conveniently forgets everything about > it > whenever he talks to me. Who knows, may be after reading this the > marketing > guys decide to put out a limited production version? Prolonging the hype > would not serve any useful purpose, except may be, to further annoy > your > customers. > > > > On 12/09/2003 12:14:25 PM, Pete Sharman wrote: > > Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld, > > through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open. Depending on > > the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big > > enough. IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small > number > > of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the > 10g > > program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't had > > my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September? Of > > course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to > join > > the beta program for the database because of the type of customer they > > are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for example, > > may fall into that category. Customers like Mogens definitely don't. > > :-) > > > > Pete > > > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" > > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA > > -----Original Message----- > > Denny Koovakattu > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:14 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > And how do you join one ? > > > > Denny > > > > Pete Sharman wrote: > > > > > > Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT > > interested, Mladen! > > > > Ducks and runs. :) > > > > Pete > > > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > > > "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" > > > > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Mladen Gogala > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a > database > > with > > less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with > > 10g. > > As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing > > hype > > being created with oracle not making an early version available. I > don't > > plan > > on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy > > tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable > sign > > used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that > > they > > still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my > fill > > of > > white papers and articles and now I want to see the software. > > > > On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > .. And there used to be all these dc_ parameters that one could set, > > giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part > > > > of > > > > the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size, > > wresting that control. > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mladen Gogala > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients > > > > of list ORACLE-L <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > ading.com> cc: > > > > > > > > Sent by: Subject: Re: > > > > dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > ity.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12/08/2003 > > > > > > > > 01:29 PM > > > > > > > > Please respond > > > > > > > > to ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6 > > > > with > > > > something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1 > > > > (no > > > > stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve > > Feuerstein > > and Howard Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in > > > > the > > > > database > > development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented. > > > > The > > > > entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the > > > > table > > > > called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the > > compatibility > > reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who > > > > are > > > > still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In > > > > Oracle > > > > 5.1.22, > > dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they > > > > were > > > > called > > "tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with > > > > "USER_OBJECTS"). > > > > The term > > "CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with > > > > 100k > > > > floppies, > > computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the > > > > first > > > > implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast > > forward to the > > present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4. Do "Select * from tab" and "select * > > > > from > > > > cat". > > You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms > > > > 2.0 and > > > > 2.3, > > the world is not over yet. > > > > On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun > > > > Solaris) and > > > > found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher > > > > than > > > > 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents > > > > ,dc_free_extents > > > > and > > > > dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below). Is this > > something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance > > optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary > > > > Cache") > > > > that I should look in order to improve the performance? > > > > TIA. > > > > Guang > > > > ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of actual > > > > report > > > > (partial): > > > > > > > > > > Mladen Gogala > Oracle DBA > > > > Note: > This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain > confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No > confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. > If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and > all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and > notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, > distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the > intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each > reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its > networks. > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, > except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized > to state them to be the views of any such entity. > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Mladen Gogala > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Pete Sharman > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Pete Sharman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
