Credentials seem very important with some in this group so: I attended 17 years of Catholic schools to include taking (except 6 hours in 'Sacramental Practicum' - or how we used to say - "How to do 'the Magic.'") all the required ordination courses at a Seminary. Formal Catholic training by Nuns, Brothers and Priests would be a couple years more but Dad was stationed in Germany following W.W.II and my tutor was more interested in 'bartering' cigarettes with my mother than offering wisdom in Catholicism ... or math for that matter. Added comment: Don't know why - but it seemed very important to a 'Village Priest in the middle of Indiana' who didn't find it necessary for me to attend Pre-Marriage Instruction - I was 'privately' confirmed by the Cardinal of Vienna. Hopefully everyone is impressed --- or as President Bush says, "In shock and awe."
Sharon,
Don't mean to 'pick on' you. Your comment just offered the springboard for what has been building. I invite anyone who does not accept my belief in some form of a Supreme Force to go off-line. I have no illusion that either of us will change our beliefs but I will gain from you comments. As to the rest and I do mean 'THE REST' ........... isn't it really 'just religion' rather than Faith?
I often quote from 'Through the Looking Glass' by Lewis Carroll but I don't literally believe everything that is in it.
'The time has come,' the Walrus said, 'To talk of many things: Of shoes - and ships - and sealing-wax - Of cabbages - and kings - And why the sea is boiling hot - And whether pigs have wings.'
Why is it "safe to assume that he (Jesus) believed it (the OT), literally" simply because He quoted from it? A logical(?) extension, "There were many things in the OT that Jesus did not literally believe because he did not quote them."
'Assume' - possibly the most dangerous of words and also a most fun --- 'What do you call it when you break it down into its parts?'
Creation ---- Evolution??? (Note that I do not say Creationism which I consider to be a religious term which may or may not be valid but some find of great value.)
Creation ---- Evolution??? Creation IS so that evolution MAY BE. Consider:
An intelligent Being/Force imaged a physical universe and it formed - was - came to be. The Being (I think it much, much to limiting to say He or She and especially It) posses(ed)(es) - all at the same time - perfect/whole/complete Knowledge. The Being gifted this created but formless universe with a set of rules. Some choose to call them the Natural Law but I like to think of them as The Master 'Do-It-Yourself/Put-It-Together' Manual. An assembly manual so complete; but, at the same time imaginative and flexible, that the universe was, in time and over time, free to form all sorts of things/creatures. Things and creatures that we (The Arrogant Human) can only guess about. I find this concept TRULY awesome and APPROPRIATELY respectful of the sublime limitlessness of The Being. The whole idea is exciting!!!!! Talk about WISDOM.
Please don't see this as in anyway limiting the significance of God directly acting in forming The Man, Adam. It is so much more. God KNEW!! Knew what was to be and billions of years ago set Knowledge into motion. A 'System --- The PLAN' that would one day allow for the gradual forming of the human ---- AND ALLOWED FOR THE GRADUAL FORMING OF WHAT IS TO COME AT SOME FUTURE TIME. I think to say otherwise simply expresses human pride and insults the Being because in our arrogance we presume to place limits on Limitless Imagination. Scary and exciting and sort of fun ------ all at the same time. What is to be???
One of the creatures that 'formed - evolved' from this imaged original plan is uniquely gifted. Unique in that it is the only one (so far known in all others) that has this gift/skill. The gift is the ability to choose to say "Yes" to the Creator's gratuitous (we did not earn it) offer of relationship. Sadly, some humans reject the gift and say "No" to this sublime invitation of relationship. Some religions (including the one to which I am a member) choose to label this 'Sin' but I see it more as waste - something that is the antithesis of the plan of the Creating Being --- something not in 'appropriate' balance with The Plan.
Each creature was/is/to be from the Mind-Will-Love of the Creator. As the result of this gift the human is more complex BUT does not have greater value than any one of the other creatures. So, the human has the most unique responsibility to, in wisdom, guard and use (as opposed to abuse) every other part of the Being's gifting creation.
Now we come to AWESOME responsibility and challenge. Since the Being gifted each of me/us with the ability to say "Yes" than each has the responsibility to respect Wisdom and never force on others my/our beliefs of how to form/maintain the Being's offered relationship with the Being. To do otherwise would insult the Being and lessen the value of the gift.
As to all the rest of the 'junk' (and I mean this in a very broad generic sense - 'baggage') which some call religion (rather than Faith)? It is just some human extension of the human formed 18th Century dilemma: "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (The accurate quote is "..... on the point of a needle...." but isn't that the point.)
Since it seems to be some function of the season --- I wish you all peace in your beliefs with the Hope (strict theological term) the world will one day experience real Peace thru Wisdom --- possibly making unnecessary a non-effective CITES.
Jerry in Indiana
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