It's been a full week since Mark posted but I now have time to give the reply I wanted to give. Some of this has been said before but I have taken the time to expand beyond what I have written before. See my comments after 4 different parts of Mark's message:
>Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:16:15 -0700 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [OGD] Phalaneopsis question ( Leaf Lesions/Microfungus) >To: orchids@orchidguide.com >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > >Steve Wilson, I am sorry to hear that all your Phalaenopsis with the >problem died, especially the old one you were fighting to keep. > >Anyone interested in the Phalaenopsis leaf lesion/micro fungus problem >(It goes by a few names), there has been plenty written about it >(especially around early 2004 when Steve brought it up) on the OGD and >can be looked up in the archives, or send me e-mail and I will send you >the posts. >As some may know I gave a sample of a leaf to the California State >Agricultural Dept. They looked at it under a electron microscope, and >found nothing. The verdict: no fungus, no bacteria, and no virus. The >plant pathologist opinion is that it is a physiological and cultural >problem. >The test was only done on one leaf from one Phalaenopsis, so the >conclusion may or may not pertain to any other Phalaenopsis with this >problem. >I have three Phalaenopsis with this problem that I have been playing >around with and trying to ?cure?. >After getting the results back from Cal State Ag, I tried a little >experiment to see if I could ?infect? a Phalaenopsis. I bought two >Phalaenopsis hybrids (same size and type). I grew them for about 8 month >separate from all other plants to see if they would show any sign of >disease. They remained healthy. > > I bought a single small Phalaenopsis last December. I liked the clone and wanted to grow it, not sacrifice it as an experiment. I grew it in the basement where I had never grown the Phals with the fatal disease. I keep new plants in a separate quarantine area when I first get them. In the spring, I use that area for a month or so to start plants for my vegetable garden. That was when I moved it in with some of my older orchids. Soon after I moved it, it started showing the familiar symptoms. Now, the newest mature leaf, the largest leaf it managed to produce, is just showing early symptoms. All leaves below that one have been lost now. >I then scooped a leaf from an ?infected? Phalaenopsis with a sterile >gouge. I took the scooped out part of the ?infected? leaf and placed it >into a scoop I had made in one of these new healthy Phalaenopsis, and >secured it with tape. >I continued to grow these new healthy Phalaenopsis together away from >all other plants. After a year and a half, both the Phalaenopsis I >intentional infected and the control showed no sign of the disease. Both >remained healthy. >I realize this is a n=1 experiment, but that is all I can do. > > I wanted to do a similar experiment. I wanted to buy some cheap Phal seedlings and see if they could be infected my rubbing cut leaf surfaces with a cut leaf from a diseased plant. My original Phals all died before I got around to that. All that could accomplish would be to show if the disease could be spread like a virus. I know for sure it spreads in other ways because it reached all the Phals I was growing in the original area even though most of the plants never touched each other and I very certainly did not spread it with cutting tools of any type. >I also tried to ?infect? /Cassia occidentalis/, which I got from AJ >Hicks, and nothing happened. /Cassia occidentalis/ is an indicator plant >that catches just about everything. >http://image.fs.uidaho.edu/vide/famly076.htm#Cassia%20occidentalis > >None of the three Phalaenopsis, I have are ?cured?. They often will grow >new leaves without lesions that will remain that way for sometime, but >eventually lesions will form. >I think the lesions are becoming less and not as crippling, but they are >still there. > >I do think that the problem is a physiological and cultural problem. I >think the problem happens in other orchids. It just looks different, >like the Oncidium Sharry Baby spotting. > > I just can't believe the idea that it is physiological or cultural. I grew Phals in that same window location since 1977. For decades, they grew reasonably well and none of them died or ever showed any of the symptoms they all started showing. It started for me one summer during some unusually hot weather. Our hot weather never lasts long and I expected the problem to just go away. Instead, it spread from the original cluster of about 5 plants to all the other Phals in the area, finally reaching all of them as the weather was cooler into the fall and early winter. The same year the Phal problem started, I also started getting a new disease on several Cattleyas, all at once. About 8 or 10 Catts suddenly showed yellow areas up to half an inch across, usually on only one leaf produced that year. The yellow areas were always round and usually had a thin black necrotic ring around them. I couldn't help but think of the phrase "ring spot" when I looked at them. A virus that suddenly showed on several plants all at the same time? Possible, but I doubt it. I sprayed the Catts with the same fungicides I was trying on the Phals back then. The Catts got better. Only a couple of the Catts have had more spots since then. That all makes it hard to believe that the Catt spots have anything to do with the Phal disease BUT, I did often place some of those Catts right in with the Phals when they were in bloom. Also, my new young Phal showed no symptoms until after I moved it to an area where I grow those older Catts. Some, possibly all, of the original Phals had brown scale at one time or another in the months leading up to the appearance of the new disease. I could believe the scale had something to do with it. However, my new Phal growing in the basement has never had scale at all and it is obviously following the same progression of the same disease. >I am still looking for a follow up to this article: >In Orchids Magazine, January 2004, page 54, ?What Causes Those Spots?? >by Mani Skaria, PhD, Yin-Tung Wang, PhD, and Larry Barnes, PhD, they are >doing a ?Microscopic Study of Leaf Lesions of Oncidium Sharry Baby >?Sweet Fragrance?. The conclusion of the article is they have eliminated >a number of possibilities and are down to a virus infection or nutrient >imbalance. Their next steps are a leaf mineral analysis, and some >preliminary virus diagnosis. > >I have yet to see a Phalaenopsis cured of this problem. Nothing that I >have tried culturally to ?cure? the problem has worked so far. Some seem >to be able to live fine with the lesions. One of my Phalaenopsis with >the lesions is in bloom right now with many flowers. The fate of >Phalaenopsis with this problem may very well be the same as Steve?s. > > I also have a Phal in bloom in the window area where the original problem started. Someone gave that one too me after it went out of bloom. I placed it right where the original diseased Phals were and it started showing symptoms after a month or two. It has lost only 1 leaf and still has more than enough vigor to bloom. >Mark Sullivan > >In God We Trust, everyone else bring data. > > > > I've had about a dozen people contact me in the last couple of years after they viewed my web site about the Phal disease. I have no contact information on that page but they have been both desperate enough and smart enough to locate another old page of mine that does have a guest book. (I figure only a small percentage of the people viewing the page would have the ability to figure out how to reach me.) Those people were from locations from around the world and I believe they all claimed to have the same disease in their Phals. I contacted all of them by e-mail and they told me about their plants. This disease seems to be so common and so wide spread, I can't believe that there hasn't been someone who has the ability to figure out what this is, once and for all. Steve Wilson http://www.geocities.com/tlswilso/Phal_problems_2-15-04.html _______________________________________________ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
