Ha. Ha.
Note that Raphael did it as a favor. The three previous attempts directly
from me to orion-interest over a period of 4 days (June 7, 8 and 10) have
yet to show. Oh, I forgot, it's a list server problem.
I'd write more, but it's awfully hard to type wearing this straight-jacket...
Jay
At 05:46 PM 6/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Wow, a sensible and well considered post. Something must have gone
>seriously wrong somewhere for you to think that something this pleasant
>and polite would be censored.
>
>And oh look, it made it the list! Take that you Orion folk! You can't hold
>us down forever! We will rise up and post whatever we want!
>
>Hani
>
>On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Rafael Alvarez wrote:
>
>> I'm posting this as a favor to Jay Amstrong
>>
>> Karl,
>>
>> Thanks for responding. This is already a long message, so I'll try to
>> keep it short.
>>
>> I've been wrong before and, if that's the case now, then please forgive
>> me. Lest anyone think I'm out to bash Orion, please refer to my vigorous
>> and lengthy defense of Orion (e.g., "Subject: Re: SV: Not authorized to
>> view this page" 16Feb2001).
>>
>> There have been several threads on orion-interest about lack of response
>> from Evermind/Ironflare. Topics like "Anyone heard from evermind?" didn't
>> appear without reason. Your response to that particular thread explained
>> the transition from Evermind to Ironflare, which, in turn, spawned many
>> concerns about the future of Orion (pricing, etc). Still, there were other
>> subsequent threads about lack of response, especially regarding bug fixes.
>>
>> Several weeks ago, I notified you directly of an unauthorized production
>> user. There was very little interest. In fact, there has been no follow
>> up to let me know whether or not anyone even verified it. I assumed that
>> there was so little interest in a few $1,500 production licenses because
>> Ironflare was too busy trying to sign with Oracle.
>>
>> I also recently requested comments from you and Magnus for a live web
>> presentation I am doing next week about J2EE on a budget. Again, no
response.
>>
>> Since we don't know the details of the deal with Oracle, it's hard for me
>> to comment on the value of the deal. What we do know is that other J2EE
>> products (e.g., WebLogic, WebSphere, IPlanet, etc) sell for upwards of
>> $10,000 per CPU.
>>
>> In the past, on this site, I have stated that I hope you an Magnus become
>> millionaires. I'm not asking now, nor will I ever ask, how many licenses
>> Ironflare has sold or the specifics of the contract with Oracle. That's
>> your business. But I do know what Oracle's competitors charge, and
>> Ironflare's possible revenue from this is theoretically enormous. Again,
>> I'm happy for you.
>>
>> The reaction I've gotten on this agreement from other
>> Orion users is that they're very happy about it, and
>> You may wish to consider that many Orion users are trying to learn J2EE,
>> have absolutely no experience with big business, etc are fearful of being
>> banned from this and the Orion site.
>>
>> In a sense, I'm happy, too. Like many users, I am concerned about the
>> future of Orion. I doubt Ironflare has an army of lawyers or a mountain of
>> cash -- Oracle does. It may be increasingly difficult to allow Orion to be
>> free for development, because Oracle's long-term business strategy is
>> probably not to allow that. There is no getting around the fact that
>> comments from users to this site have helped refine a product that is now
>> directly benefitting a Fortune 50 company.
>>
>> I am definitely happy for you and Magnus. I've gained a lot more from
>> Orion than I've given.
>>
>> I am somewhat encouraged by your comments, though still doubtful about the
>> future. Maybe I'm just too cynical. Maybe I've dealt with too many big
>> companies.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>
>
>
