>I have already addressed several of the points raised in Ian's post, >on the list and in a paper on Pliny at orion web site. Dear Stephen, This is about all that I could see in your paper ar orion that was vaguely relevant: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Recent excavations by Yizhar Hirschfeld in Ein Gedi have been interpreted as an Essene settlement, based on the apparent misreading of Pliny. At least, this appears to be the case, based on preliminary reports of the excavation. Hirschfeld's site is too small and too late to be what Pliny described. Even more contrasting is the description by Dio (in Synesius) that the Essenes had a "very blessed city" (or a "complete and happy city," polin hol_n eudaimona). And Hirschfeld assumes that his "Essenes" worked in the balsam industry in the factory in the town of Ein Gedi; if so, the would not be "alone with palm trees." Furthermore, Uzi Dahari has dug a site similar to Hirschfeld's. Dahari's site, on cliffs south of Wadi Kidron, is dated to the first revolt and afterward--in other words, too late for Pliny's source. Dahari suggests that his site, which lacks miqvaot or a communal building, may have served refuges from the revolt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thir has nothing substantive to say about the Hirschfeld site. You just opine about Hirschfeld's "apparent misreading of Pliny" and repeat the unfounded claim that the site is "too small and too late" to which part of my previous post dealt with. Qumran with its central building and a few outbuildings does not fit the description of being >a "very blessed city" (or a "complete and happy city," >polin hol_n eudaimona)' -- any better than the Hirschfeld site. In both cases the claim would be exaggerated. (For the others, here is Stephen's article which he claims deals with "several of the points raised" in my last post: http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/orion/programs/Goranson98.shtml) As we are here, let me take umbrage at this statement: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a recent book, Lena Cansdale wrote that the interpretation of Pliny by de Vaux and others "quite unacceptable." Rather than engaging the substantial literature and source criticism, she argues that Pliny elsewhere uses the Latin terms for the cardinal points, south and so on, implying he would have done so here if Ein Gedi were to the south of the Essene settlement. But one could easily respond that neither did he (or his source) use the Latin for west to place them in heights (also not mentioned) in that direction from Ein Gedi. So it is Cansdale's treatment which is "quite unacceptable." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The use of cardinal points is to be found throughout the passage about Judea -- "a meridiae" ("to the south") is itself used twice in the passage, and the Essene paragraph starts, "ab occidente", so Cansdale is making a fair objection of the contextually unsupportable translation of "south of" for "infra", as the source writer clearly shows a prediliction for the use of cardinal points. I have made the same objection myself. The natural reading of infra (ie below), rules out the objection you raise here for the "Essene" site is clearly above Ein Gedi, so, as there are no relevant context indications, ie no tangible reason to think of "south of", one must rely on the most intrinsic understanding of the term (according to Lewis & Short). Simple appeals to often tendentious literature are no substitutes for dealing with problems. >C. F. L. Strack translated Pliny "...Su[e]dlich von ihnen..." -- South >of them [the Essenes}" was Ein Gedi; that was in 1853. C. D. Ginsberg >rendered Pliny as referring to Essenes on the "north-west shore" of the >Dead Sea; that was in 1862 (and reprinted later). I'm impressed that you could find anyone writing prior to the DSS who wanted to read in Pliny's "ab occidente" as referring to the **north**-west. West from Machaerus and Callirhoe we come to Wadi Murabba'at, which is not on the **north**-west coast and that is already 10 km north of Ein Gedi and still nowhere near Qumran. And "Suedlich von ihnen" does not in itself suggest that Pliny's Essenes were on the "north-west shore" -- this is *your* use of it --, but merely to the north of Ein Gedi, that could have been five hundred metres or five kilometres, rather than the 30 km from Ein Gedi to Qumran -- Pliny doesn't say. So your reading of Strack doesn't appear to be derived from what he wrote. You will remember the debate in RB 68 & 69 between Audet, Burchard and Laperoussez in which three pro-Essene scholars negated each other's views of what "infra" meant in the passage, so you will know that there are strong doubts as to the significance of the term amongst DSS scholars. They only know it must refer to Qumran. I still remain suitably impressed that you could find this C.D. Ginsburg. Ian For private reply, e-mail to "Ian Hutchesson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: "unsubscribe Orion." Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
