Rafe & all, (I drafted this last nite, but my Internet connection was down (curse streamyx) and only posted this around noon today...
agree with Raja, cultivating world-class developers, is like cultivating other world-class artisans/scientists... notice those that 'made it' were not cultivated locally, they made it on their own, overseas! (Jimmy Choo, Michelle Yeoh ... included). Perhaps that's some thing to be said of a free competitive environ vs a coddled and protective one! As IT geeks, we have the advantage of not leaving home ground, but still compete internationally!) Is yr concern 'only' with World Class Developers? What about the rest of the ecosystem? I think just focussing on this may not be sufficient, you have to take a more holistic approach, create the eco-system. Using the real life biological example, if you introduce some top-predators (say lions) into an ecosystem, and the rest of the ecosystem has not been upgraded, they will do well initially, until they run out of prey, and because the ecosystem is not SUSTAINABLE; ie:cannot produce more prey, they will eventually die out. Same with top-developers, they cannot work alone. Yes you can have super programmers that can come out with products working alone, but after that they either get bored or burnt out, so who supports the product? Especially if their are no 2nd tier programmers who can step up to maintain the project and be groomed to be leaders themselves. Also can we have world class developers without a world-class project? The 2 go hand in hand. Or whats the point of world class developer working on a low-class project? A world class developer may not be a visionary, or be an accidental one. Case in point being Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners Lee. They didn't start out to develop a product to change the world. Others saw the brilliance of their product or its potential and continued contributing to get it there. But the contributors came from all over the world. Sure Msia can initiate some world class project, but to try keep it Malaysian is silly! You want to tap brainpower wherever it is available, that's Open Source. Also I think Msia has a miserable record of grooming/cuktivating 'World Class 'somebody/something'. After they've 'made it', after spending a far bit of taxpayer's money, they just fade away... I quote 2 projects as example, a few M$ was spent to put a Malaysian on Everest, and even more M$ was spent for a Msian to sail around the world. What happened to these 'World Class' persons? They have faded into obscurity and haven't achieved much since then... (I was indirectly involved with Everest Proj. so I know what I'm talking about...) So all this 'rah rah Malaysia Boleh' is just a feel good for a while phenomena, is just not sustainable, and soon people forget about it until the next hot Malaysia Boleh ___________(fill in the blank) campaign gets underway. Its just a flash in the pan, and it sucks. Rather I'd argue for devloping a good pool of decent devlopers, guys/gals with the correct attitude, aptitude and skills. Then from this pool of talent, some World Class developer may arise. Its the same when grooming atheletes, you don't just focus on a just 1 or 2 guys, you talent scout and select a team, then you train and groom them, and create an environment where they have to compete and improve. The the really good ones will rise to the top, and you will have your best. Perhaps we should do this, the talent scouting is important, to make sure you start with the right raw materials. GOT AN IDEA!, make this into a REALITY-SHOW, something like Donald Trump's 'Apprentice'. Instead here you are developing World Class 'Hackers', giving them an opportunity to realise their dream, and building it into a viable & sustainable business! I'm more than willing to sit on the advisory committee, and sure so would the others like Red! et al... We need to create the environment and the culture to nurture World Class developers. The environment should be a lot more entrepreneurial, and the entrepreneurs should also be a lot more serious and hands-on, especially on the technology aspects. And stop stifling them by asking them to fill in 20 pgs of forms (for pre-seed, c'mon ...), But those are the accountants' requirements, you say! So get the accountants and lawyers out of the picture. My take on this is these 2 professions are by definition & tradition VERY SHY OF RISK (KIASU) and they have little place to play, (they) tend to dissuade rather than encourage talented young ppl to take risks & challenges! (makes more sense if they come in after preseed...) To minimise the cost of risks to MDEC et al, as someone has mentioned in another Post, set the quantum smaller and the time constraint shorter. I believe they (Azrul?) said, 50k, 3 months (for 2-3 ppl2), and if you deliver a proof of concept (POC) then get further funding. 3 mths is enough to deliver POC for sure... otherwise they are not qualified... Of course the the fund provider has to have good enuff evaluators from a technical and biz perspective perspective. And also, offer advise, prob on design & technical issues, at this stage, during this period. Again, I, and a think a few others are willing to volunteer for this panel as our contribution... and all this can be rolled into a reality show! There, there's a whole bunch of world class ideas here (and in other posts), so lets see the world class MDEC make something out of it! Do all this and you have some very real chance of grooming World Class Developers! Rafe, hope you can persuade yr superiors;-) On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Raja Iskandar Shah <rajaiskand...@gmail.com> wrote: > quick reply: > > 1. osdc.my is expected to be formalised in dec 2009 (many many many grateful > thanks to black) - so this can be the umbrella for what needs to be done > > 2. world class developer = a person who is an active contributor to a global > software project that includes developers from other countries and is used > by people around the world (summing up what the bos said and also many > thanks to nuhaa sebagai wakil the ladies). > > and the details include recognised by his peers, flies on business class, > shares knowledge, produces good software, superwoman (sebab thread ni > ditujukan kepada the ladies), social engineer, world champion.... > bla...bla...bla... > > i guess you could compare to what makes a world class athlete or a world > class scientist. also compare with the malaysians who made it like what made > red1 of adempiere, yycheong of jstock, john lim of adodb, etc > > developers are like artisans (such as painters, writers or rockerz...) they > are technically talented in producing what people like. > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel > <linuxmalay...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> 1) Show us the codes >> >> Developers ---> codes >> >> Quality codes review by peers >> >> Peers well know sites >> >> ---> Sourceforge >> ---> Google Codes >> >> Peers also people in expertise in the subjects but not coders. The >> codes flow as what the expertise wanted. >> >> >> 2) Knowledge Sharing >> >> How much he or she share to community. Answering questions >> Guidelines and HOWTO >> Speakers and meet the public and most important >> meeting and talking with subject matter expert >> >> But sharing is virtual... Some love to share by only showing the codes. :) >> >> For me, as long that he can codes a good codes and produce a software >> and recognize by expertise for what the software are for. >> >> But we have one problem..... >> >> A good software is build by number of developers... We need to >> recognize all of them. So 10 world class developers may come from one >> project. >> >> Truely I dont know any developers that can do business and manage >> projects. We could not have both. Memang superman lah dia. >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:09 AM, rafe azsnal <azs...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Ladies, >> > >> > How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the >> > standard >> > and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look at?? >> > >> > rafe >> > >> >> > > > > > -- #------- regds, Boh Heong, Yap --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
