Thanks, Harrison, for stating your position so "clearly" that now I am able to see where I agree and where I disagree with you... Please follow my argument.
At 16:37 01-02-2001 -0500, Harrison Owen wrote:
(...) Every adventure, enterprise, institution that I know started out of nothing -- an Open Space. There was a day when it wasn't there. And out of that nothing -- something emerged. I would say through the process of self-organization. And if that something persists we say it has a life
I agree. (But see above)
As near as I can see - this is exactly what happens in Open Space. We start with nothing.
I agree.
So when you ask, " what are the special and different conditions that are at work during OST?" I guess I have to say -- nothing new. Just life. (...) Don't do Open Space. Just live.
And here is where I disagree with you. I will state my disagreement in 2 points. First, I think you are underestimating the importance of the work of an American writer that I don't remember the name... but wait a minute that I will see... I must have it written somewhere... at least I must have a book from him... hang on please... ... ... ... ...Oh, yes, the guy's name is Harrison Owen... (I find it interesting that we diverge on this subject, but in a certain sense that's ok and even interesting...) As I can't claim that you don't know his works, I have to search for a different reason. But I still have to answer the question: « why is it that I think as being SOOO important something that you think is "just life" ?» To explain this difference of opinion there could be many reasons. And I know I am only speculating, but I would say that the easiest reason I can find to explain the disagreement is the following: we are looking at the world from different points, or perspectives, or paradigms - and as the world is the (real) world plus the theories/beliefs through which we see it, maybe we are even looking at different worlds ;-) I will not speculate about how you see the world. I will only explain how I see it. Let me first state again where we agree:
in Open Space. We start with nothing.
Every adventure, enterprise, institution that I know started out of nothing -- an Open Space.
But the point, as I see it, is that when we "open and hold the space" for an enterprise, institution or community we ARE NOT in the beginning of the adventure, we are not any more in face of a space that is Open. (by the way, you used "start" in relation with Open Space and the past ("started") to refer to adventures, enterprises,... not to mention that an "institution" is something that has been previously "institutionalised"...) The enterprise has been living from some time, an is now OLD, its movements are now constrained due to age and bad management, etc. The Public Administration is at the service of politicians, which are in service of financial powers, etc. The communities have been constrained for centuries by political, economical and social constraining powers, and by the churches and ideologies that have almost always served those powers. So every time we are asked or accepted to "open the space" we are moved to open the space because it IS NOT open - it is closed or at least constrained. Maybe in some cases it is not so "closed" as in Nashville,TN, but it is almost always at least constrained. Really we are living in a world that is mostly anti-life: the majority of our gouvernments, of our companies, of our administration systems, of our churches, of our schools are mostly anti-life. And even the well-intentioned people that try to help others that suffer because of the system are normally acting in such a way that the people they help will continue to NEED their help. They help in a way that prolongs the situation that obliged others to need help in first place. And it doesn't matters the name it is given to this "help" - as long as someone is "helping" others he is not "changing the system" or creating conditions that will facilitate that they will feel empowered and help themselves. Maybe I am wrong and the explanation for our "disagreement" is a different one. But I am always open to surprises... Regards Artur * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html =========================================================== osl...@egroups.com To subscribe, 1. Visit: http://www.egroups.com/group/oslist 2. Sign up -- provide an email address, and choose a login ID and password 3. Click on "Subscribe" and follow the instructions To unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@egroups.com: 1. Visit: http://www.egroups.com/group/oslist 2. Sign in and Proceed