If you look hard enough, you will find some of those someones here. But, I can almost guarantee, not a majority. Perhaps you are interpreting the voice of "wolf" in a different way than others of us? Winston ----- Original Message ----- From: Peggy Holman To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?
The voice of wolf was missing in the council circle. Without that voice, a decision was made that led to great difficulty. Had wolf's voice been heard from the start, a different result would have occurred. My sense is there are a number of voices that we haven't heard from on this list. One that stands out for me is the voice that seemse to be reflected in poll numbers in an overwhelming way. I'm wondering if someone among us can help us hear that perspective. Your point about the specific question is well taken. Here's what I pulled from Gallup's page: GALLUP NEWS SERVICE http://www.gallup.com/Poll/Releases/Pr010914b.asp Key Summary Points * The vast majority of Americans support the general idea of military action against the groups or nations responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. * Support for retaliatory military action has remained at about the 90% level through the weekend of Sept. 21-22. * Given a choice, Americans are somewhat more in favor of a long-term war to defeat global terrorism networks than focusing on the specific terrorist groups responsible for the attacks. * More than eight out of 10 Americans favor direct military action in Afghanistan, and more than seven out of 10 favor direct military action in Iraq. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Herman" <mher...@globalchicago.net> To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? > i think we have to be careful what we assign that percentage to, peggy. i have > not heard "70-90% favor *going to war*"...what i have heard is "70-90% favor > *retaliation against those who have done these terrible acts*" or something to > that effect. very different things. in such a complex situation, it seems > critically important to understand what question is *really* being asked, > heard, responded to in these polls. > > also, not sure i understand your question. i took 'wolf' in the earlier > message to be the folks whose space we've moved into in other parts of the > world. here you seem to shift the reference to those who would choose war. > getting murky for me. m > > > > Peggy Holman wrote: > > > I keep seeing polls that say something like 70-90% of Americans believe > > going to war is the right answer. I haven't heard that voice expressed > > here. Can someone speak that perspective from their heart? And can the > > rest of us be courageous enough to hold the space open for it? Who speaks > > for wolf? > > > > Peggy > > > > P.S. John -- many, many thanks for the powerful posts you have provided > > during this time. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Dicus" <jdi...@ourfuture.com> > > To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:17 AM > > Subject: Turtle (way of warrior) > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I learned from a friend, Paula Underwood, whose Native American name was > > > "Turtle Woman," that wisdom lives in the center of the circle. Turtle > > > grows in the center while the ways of the four directions cycle about > > > (warrior, visionary, healer, teacher). She said to walk the circle > > > clockwise, hearing from the four voices in the unending sequence of a > > > learning spiral. If we become stuck at any one point, she said, we should > > > back up a quarter turn before moving on. So, what does teacher need to > > say > > > before we can go forward from warrior... to vision to healing to....? In > > > this spiraling, the way of the turtle (wisdom) grows it's voice as well. > > > > > > If any of you have never seen Paula's works, her teaching book "Who Speaks > > > For Wolf" would be a good read right now. In short, it's about a people > > > who decided to move their village to a more fertile area but forgot to > > hear > > > the voice of wolf in their council circle. When they moved, they moved > > > smack dab into wolf's territory. After being harassed by wolves for a few > > > months, they decided that either they had to kill all the wolves or move > > > back. They decided to move back since the other choice was unconscionable. > > > So -- who speaks for wolf? > > > > > > John Dicus > > > > > > -- > > > John Dicus | CornerStone Consulting Associates > > > - Leadership - Systems Thinking - Teamwork - Open Space - Electric Maze - > > > 2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280 > > > 800-773-8017 | 330-725-2728 (2729 fax) > > > mailto:jdi...@ourfuture.com | http://www.ourfuture.com > > > > > > * > > > * > > > ========================================================== > > > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > > ------------------------------ > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > > > Visit: > > > > > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > > > > * > > * > > ========================================================== > > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > ------------------------------ > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > > Visit: > > > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > -- > > Michael Herman > 300 West North Avenue #1105 > Chicago IL 60610 > 312-280-7838 voice > 312-280-7837 fax > > http://www.michaelherman.com > a personal/professional portal to > consulting, open space, evolution, > invitation resources, michael's > open notebook, and the rest of > GlobalChicago... > > mailto:mher...@globalchicago.net > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html