I completely agree that there have definitely been much wiser people than Bush/Blair; however, I think it's 'un-wise' to sit at home and critique and judge those in power without remembering that we might not be so wise if in their shoes. I didn't mean to say that simply getting elected makes one wise....but both of these gentlemen have been elected not only once, but twice - obviously not too stupid. My point is that they are wiser than the typical 'armchair quarterbacks' who sit in front of the TV watching Farenheit 9/11 while judging their moves...
Thanks for your comments, they were much 'wiser' than some I read on here...hehe! -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu]On Behalf Of Michaël-SYSt Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:08 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: wisdom; was: London calling--long reply Funda- How can you say that the leaders of the G8 (or your leaders) are not wise? They wouldn't be in the positions they are in if they were not wise. That isn't to say that they make no mistakes. They are human. I am 'beyond baffled' at your shallow comment. Interesting this implicit definition of wisdom I cant give this definition, but about wisdom I think Nelson Mandela gets closer than George Bush or Tony Blair for instance. But no doubt they take a big responsibility on their shoulders, but getting elected is not the same as wisdom. Is wisdom personal? There is a lot of wisdom in this list. Have a good time there in Halifax! ________________________ Michaël Molenaar Systemisch Consult Tilburg - Holland mich...@syst.nl Website: www.syst.nl Tel: +31 (0)13 5770070 GSM +31 (0)6 51561095 ________________________ Van: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] Namens EJE Spady Verzonden: zondag 10 juli 2005 23:33 Aan: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Onderwerp: Re: [OSLIST] London calling--long reply Funda- How can you say that the leaders of the G8 (or your leaders) are not wise? They wouldn't be in the positions they are in if they were not wise. That isn't to say that they make no mistakes. They are human. I am 'beyond baffled' at your shallow comment. Also, remember that Fahrenheit 9/11 is a Hollywood flick. Hardly factual...and Michael Moore isn't exactly, a leader. He makes the big bucks because people like yourself buy into his irrational philosophies. As for your last comment, I guess you are trying to say that the "men in power" (the G8 leaders and your own) are the ones responsible for the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Spain and now London...............what the???????? You are entitled to your own thoughts/beliefs but they are about as far from reality as any I have ever heard!!! Keep smokin'............. -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu]On Behalf Of Funda Oral Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 3:06 AM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: London calling--long reply Paul, Ok, i agree we can discuss the truths and rules imposed on us by all the religions. I often think that they make us sick, they separate us, they encourage us being enemy of each other rather then brothers. Or maybe, not the religions but the leaders do so. Jon, Thank you for keeping us informed and sharing with us what is happening in London but I am very doubtful that your (G8) leaders are wise as mentioned in your mail. Our leaders are not wise either. But even worse, i am afraid they cooperate more to be in power rather then for the benefit of all the human beings and the world. Did anyone watch Fahrenheit 9/11?....What i saw there was; some men in power (religious, business leaders) from all the religions coming together to play with the rest of the world. If we look around carefully to find who is responsible of what is happening, I don't think the answer is "a bunch of terrorists" Funda ----- Original Message ----- From: everett...@aol.com To: osl...@listserv.boisestate..edu Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: Re: London calling--long reply In a message dated 7/8/05 11:10:06 PM, chris.corri...@gmail.com writes: I don't usually weigh in on stuff like this, and I'm sure others will tan your hide for it, but Paul, I have to stand in front of the rash generalizations you are making about "Muslims." Sorry, Chris, I don't regard those as "rash generalizations", Friedman is correct, NO high order Muslim from any Muslim nation has issued a fatwa on bin Laden and his followers. By that I mean someone of the stature that issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for publishing a book they deemed defamed Muhammad. The Muslim Islamic cleric leader of Iran. And, of course, you are correct. There are millions of Muslims who abhor what is happening. They want peace, too. They want a life of freedom, economic security, etc., why else would they leave their repressive homelands to come to the Western nations? Friedman's point (and mine) is unless IMPORTANT people of the leadership of Muslim nations start to speak out in loud, consistent tones that such is not part of the Koran (Ch. 5, v. 32; ch. 17, v. 33 according to an Immam I heard on the news tonight) and their societies begin to isolate and negate these people, we are in for a very bad time, indeed. You may be enlightened, but I will predict that if this goes on, and gets worse, large numbers of people will not be acting in an enlightened manner. We all know about the 'tipping point'. It happens in societies, too. It CAN happen here. Imagine the reaction of even a very large minority to a WMD incident in a major Western nation. It won't be pretty. Finally, there is much that can be done to avoid Huntington's Thesis, but it takes a long time, a long time, and will take something along the line of Martin Luther's 95 Theses within Islam before we will see a genuine rapproachment between the globalizing West and the Islamic world. I believe we need to see the world as it is, not as we wish it was, and take steps accordingly. Sincerely, Paul Everett * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist* * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
