Hello all,
This is a very interesting discussion and one I have to say I have
explored
rather thoroughly. I have experienced process work and... I do agree
that
comparisons are not generally worthwhile. However, I will quote (or
more
likely mis-quote) another saying... 'spirit goes where attention flows'.
Ignoring the 'negative' (if you actually are aware it is there) is
actually
a form of attention and will generally 'feed' that beast... and...
staying
in that place can most definitely send one on a long journey into pain.
On the other hand, focusing on what is 'positive' actually does have
benefits. It generates enthusiasm, health, wellbeing, enjoyment of
life.
And both exist at all times in life and living. My personal experiences
of
OST have always been deeply positive.
Thanks for inviting this discussion,
Nancy
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Change
Management Toolbook
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:42 AM
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu
Subject: OST and POP (was: The Pros and Cons of OST)
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:11:54 +1100, Allison & Jim Baensch
<mb...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
My second paper at the conference will be about high and low dreams -
a paper related to Process Oriented Psychology (Arnold Mindell and
colleagues).
So I am aware of the benefits of not just focussing on the positives
of a situation.
Thanks for your tasty response,
Allison.
Hello Allison,
welcome to the list and thanks for your input. I am thrilled of the
combination of the two sessions you will host at the conference:
Open Space Technology and Process Oriented Psychology.
I have been working with OST for a while and just started a couple of
months ago to involve myself into POP, attending a training with Max
Schupbach. What one usually does is to compare (even if you don't want
to
compare), and one starts to compare on different levels. I, for example,
compare the process level of OST gatherings and POP (unfortunately I
have
not yet been exposed to an open forum, but rather to 20-40 people
processes). More interesting for me, I also compare the meta level.
What I found out is that the underlying assumptions and the foundationss
of OST and POP match somehow. We just had an interesting discussion in
the
German OS list about the application of Quantum Physics (QP) to social
processes. POP refers to QP as its main founding theory. In the
literature
on OST, QP has not been mentioned (at least not that I know), although
the
principles, particular the "What ever happens..." are deeply quantum. I
like the analogies to QP, but as I have learned from physicists, they
are
just analogies / models, and that there is no computer in the world
which
can calculate whether quantum effects guide large systems. My main
critic
of POP is that they (sometimes) take QP not as a model, but as a guiding
principle for groups. Although that sounds nice, it is not supported by
current physics, which can only prove the validity of QP to atomic and
molecular systems.
On the other side, OST (and Appreciative Inquiry/AI) have a lot of
references to Social Constructivism (SC) and Neurobiology, while POP has
more implicit assumptions of SC.
OST, then, has its foundation in Complexity or Chaos Theory os Systems
Thinking (ST). I always feel that ST as a guiding principle is closer to
the reality of larger social systems then QP. Maybe it will turn out
that
ST is a macro description of QP. POP does not speak in system terms but
in
quantum terms.
However, the practices and the processes are very different. In POP, you
have the facilitator as an explicit role (which can shift from person to
person, because POP assumes non-local roles). In OST you basically don't
have a facilitator (in German, we speak instead of a "Begleiter", which
means somebody who goes along with somebody or something).
Another difference between the two processes is the degree to which
conflicts are verbalized and addressed. What I like about OST and AI is
the ease with which tensions are dealt with. As a consequence, people
might see that there are alternatives to dealing with problems and
conflicts in a violent manner. In POP processes, I have seen a lot of
verbal violence, and grief. One can argue wether this is not part of
life,
and OST and AI neglect the deep divide which exists between people. As
my
spiritual teacher Stephen Gilligan has said: "Life is beautiful, but
sometimes it hurts like hell."
You see, I have only questions, no answers at all. I am fascinated of
both
approaches, and would like to hear from you how do you perceive the
difference (and the similarities). If you could send me your
presentation
of POP, I would be quite pleased.
Go on! With best regards
Holger Nauheimer
Change Facilitation sro
Panenska 3
81103 Bratislava
Slovakia
http://www.change-management-toolbook.com
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