yes. i absolutly agree that everything operates in its self-organizing way. ever since i come to terms with the perspective of os and so, life has become much much more meaningful in it's own uncluttered way. again, rehearse the four principles and practice the fact that we have two feet whenever and wherever. from still rainy seoul... Love & Peace, park
_____ From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Harrison Owen Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:18 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: The Emergant (used to be RE: hierarchy and things) Brian wrote: "For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these very aspects of our work." Brian, as you might suspect I share your passion, and probably also your impatience ("That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least"). But at the same time I also suspect that the pot has been coming to a boil on its own time table, and as we all know a watched pot never boils! It seems to me that a number of the critical pieces are in place and that the conversation is now joined. But I think we all have to recognize that the territory is a new one, and that there will be multiple stops, start, side trips and detours. As part of that conversation I would point out what seems to me to be a puzzle in our thinking. We continue to talk about "design" and "organizing things" - which is quite understandable since that is what we have always done. And yet in a self organizing (Open Space) world both design and organization are not fundamentally of our making. We continue to have and important role to play in the whole affair, but rather a different one that most of us expected. Perhaps the first step is to deeply appreciate the design and organization that emerges, and then seek ways to optimize the effect? Harrison _____ From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Brian S Bainbridge Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:49 AM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: hierarchy and things Responding to Chris Corrigan's insighting. Dear Chris As a person who - perhaps as much as any other Open Space character - lives within a dominantly hierarchic system, I have very little personal interest in the matter of hierarchies, except to note that they "are there" in some fashion. What I am excited about in your letter is the last paragraph - talking about seeing "the larger implications for organizing human endeavours" , the "incredibly inspired thinking", the "broad implications for the way things are organized", and the "crux of the next level of investigations into what all these methodologies mean". For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these very aspects of our work. For more years than I can remember, these are the real goals and dreams of why I open space, every time. And, with so many other wonderful people in this network, I know an immense amount of change and growth and development and success has been achieved. To share the insighting, to help it happen more widely yet, to encourage "newbies" to start to think in these terms, to work up themes which stimulate such results, and to learn from so many other more experienced people than I how to help these things happen better - that, for me, is what an OSonOS is primarily about. That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least) only means it is more important yet to continue trying to help it happen, whatever of the immense personal expense and inconvenience and long- distance travel and so on. All praise to you - again - Chris, for getting this very aspect into words - for me at least. The Camden gathering could be very special, perhaps. That's my prayer. Ta! Cheers and blessings, BRIAN Fr Brian S. Bainbridge 0412 111 525 Skype: briansbain _____ From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Corrigan Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2007 9:30 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: hierarchy...was report from the field Within the Art of Hosting community of practice, we have been looking at a fifth organizational paradigm, which is something like a combination of hierarchy, circle, network and bureaucracy. Some of us have been looking at what these four paradigms have to offer, for examples, hierarchy offers order and clarity, circle offers an equal reflective space, network offers an immediate ability to connect with whatever is needed, and bureaucracy helps channel resources where they are needed, "irrigating" initiatives or parts of an organization. Certainly, each of these has a dark side, but if the benefits are illuminated and then transcended, you get a fifth organizational paradigm in which all four can be somehow present and somehow something new is born. I think we are increasingly seeing Open Space meetings as the embodiments of this fifth form, which has gone by many other names among those of us here on the list: InterActive Organization, Conscious Open Space Organization, Inviting Organization, Radiant Networking and so on. There is something in the pattern of Open Space that, if it has not yet achieved transcendence of these four forms, at least leads the eye to what might emerge. Self-organization is clearly the key, or at least the gas in the engine. I find it interesting that many of us who are devoted to these models of dialogic practice can. Great thread. Chris On 7/15/07, Harrison Owen <hho...@verizon.net> wrote: Raffi -- You will notice that I very carefully did not use the word "hierarchy," but a quite different word -- "elitism." I am not sure that is the right word either, but that is the problem with words. Indeed, hierarchy itself (as you point out) is not a bad thing. Quite natural in fact and very useful. Heirarchy is a problem, however, when it is frozen and stuck. At that point it becomes an "old" hierarchy reflective of a different time and/or situation, holding power and authority very much in the fashion of the Divine Right of Kings. That is what I would call elitism. The real problem is that it is non-functional because it limits the capacity of a system to adapt to a changing environment. This of course can go on for a long time, and indeed some environments stick around for a bit. But at the moment a stable environment seems to be more the exception than the rule. So Heirarchy, Yes. Elitism, No. In terms of our community of folks -- to be sure there is hierarchy, in fact there are multiple hierarchies constantly changing with time and tide, and many existing simultaneously in a wonderful dance of conflict and collaboration. I think that is fantastic, useful, and something to be honored. However, if we ever got to the point where there was one, unchanging hierarchy that would be the last moment you would be seeing me anywhere on the premises -- even if, and most especially if, I was the King of the heap! I think Kaliya is absolutely correct in pointing out the utility of a "repetitional meritocratic hierarchy" (WOW! -- the words sort of roll off the tongue!!). And if I understand the words at all, I think that is pretty much what "we" are. I would also agree that experience, training, maturity are critical -- in Open Space, as everywhere else. But I would take some issue with the notion that, "Open Space Technology is fundamentally different then these two community practices -- OST is not trying to build an operating system or have 100,000 all collaborate on the same thing - it doesn't 'need' the kind of hierarchy that technical communities do." >>From where I sit, the adventure we have embarked on is actually larger and more complex than the "simple business" of creating an operating system. Our task (or at least the one I choose for myself) is not so much about designing a system but rather the appreciation of the infinite complexity and elegance of the self-organizing Human System. And this is not just "music appreciation," performance is the name of the game. How do we effectively live in this system, and maybe even more importantly, what can we do to enable the system to live? I think of Open Space as a wonderful natural experiment in which thousands of people are participating. The power of the experiment emerges when we freely and openly share our experiences and understandings. And everybody has a vital part to play. Those of us who have been around for a bit may have a broader and possibly deeper view, but there is an almost inevitable tendency to take some things for granted and get stuck in our ways. The antidote for all of that is the arrival of fresh eyes with apparently "dumb questions." There are no dumb questions that are also real questions. Real questions have no answers, they only open more space and take you deeper. And when you have lots of space (up, down, sideways, wherever)-- then the fun begins. Harrison -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Raffi Aftandelian Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:08 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: hierarchy...was report from the field Greetings friends and colleagues-- Harrison you wrote: "The other day I got a note which said in part, "I was surprised to find out that there was a hierarchy in the OST community and everyone having a specific place to hold, voices are not equal and politics prevails in certain circuits Just the same old same old... I'm not sure this is what you envisioned with OST." I have no idea what the specific circumstances were, and less interest in finding out. But presuming that we have the creeping tentacles of elitism sneaking in - a good dose of the Law of Two Feet and a clear recognition of the Universal License of Open Space (everybody has one by birth) should do the trick. Or something." I would love to hear more from the person who wrote about hierarchy in the OST community. What is meant by "hierarchy" here? Isn't there hierarchy everywhere? Is it a bad thing? The question is what kind of hierarchy do we have in the OST community? Is it a hierarchy that feeds us, strengthens us? And how do we choose to engage with it as a community? Do we create the spaces to talk about the power differentials within our practitioner community in a way that, well, builds more capacity within us? Quakers, for example, acknowledge that voices are not equal within the life of a Monthly Meeting. They have the concept of "weightiness" or a "weighty Friend." In other words, these are the elders within the Quaker world. And doesn't the OST world have its elders and sages? I, too, have heard (and thought) that the OST community is the "same old...," - heck, some of that "same oldness" shows up on the list from time to time- *and* I do not know of a more generous, welcoming, inspiring facilitation community. We either choose to engage with the OST community as it is, or...well exercise the law of two feet. Raffi * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist -- CHRIS CORRIGAN Facilitation - Training Open Space Technology Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd. http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
